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2012-08-13: No Gods No Masters
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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miss Magenta wrote:
Adyon wrote:
(Seymore)

*Seymour.

Adyon wrote:
Also, she looks much older here, but still not 100% definable...So let the Age Wars begin!! (Or...continue........technically...) *cough*


Well, uh. In one strip she road a legitimate motorcycle - and you've got to be at least somewhere around the ages of 16 to 18 to ride a motorcycle... added with the fact that she's got the same proportions that Nique, Slick, Crim and Li'l E all have in the reality zone... and they're all about 16 or older...

Wink
I'd agree on that concept of age too.

And thanks for the correction...I'm so used to the other spelling myself, I forget how his name is spelled. And Tat uses people's names so often! *cough* =P
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adyon wrote:
Here, (Tat)'s kind of decided to make a "deep" statement about the nature of the Reality Zone.


Nah, we don't get any new information from this comic. We already knew the Devil couldn't go into the Reality Zone, so why would The Hand In The Sky have any influence there either?
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ChastMastr



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, that's true. It isn't necessary a deep statement on theology or the lack thereof, then...
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joandark



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is playing into my hope that the Glossy is a Marxist Feminist and will fight, not only the patriarchy, but also organized religion and capitalism/corporatism. She's already fighting the devil, who's basically a level 10 bourgeoisie, and with Lilly in his current state, we need someone to tell off Yahweh. This only seems to work.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChastMastr wrote:
Ah, that's true. It isn't necessary a deep statement on theology or the lack thereof, then...

Well........ I wouldn't have expected such entities to have any influence outside of the bounds of fictional constructs, but I suppose you could interpret it as being directly analogous to the way such beings are usually observed to exert no influence on physical reality regardless of whether they exist outside of physical reality or not, whatever the hell that means. This probably isn't contradictory to your religion, whatever it is.

joandark wrote:
This is playing into my hope that the Glossy is a Marxist Feminist and will fight, not only the patriarchy, but also organized religion and capitalism/corporatism. She's already fighting the devil, who's basically a level 10 bourgeoisie, and with Lilly in his current state, we need someone to tell off Yahweh. This only seems to work.


Hellz yeah.

...wait, what??? Confused

.....


Hellz yeah.
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mrwasabi90



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, no pedals.
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filecore



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holocauxt wrote:
Wait... so "Master/Author/Whatever Tat's Self-Insert is called" doesn't exist in Reality Zone!?


Or, reading the strip literally, you could come to the conclusion: "In reality, there are no gods and no masters". These things are only present if you let them be.

Adyon wrote:
Holocauxt wrote:
Gotta wonder:

If religion is a form of Patriarchy, are there any women-centric faiths out there? Barring Feminism, of course.

I'm not sure religion in itself is a form of the Patriarchy...but rather that the Patriarchy would revel in using religion to propogate itself.


"Religion" is nothing. I suspect you are mixing "Christianity" with "religion"; "religion" is just a blanket term covering all forms of faith (including pro-feminist ones) and many branches of philosophy.

That said, religion has historically been used as a tool of social, moral and ethical direction (and even repression), so it's not far off the mark to suppose that those intent on protecting patriarchical interests would use it to their advantage too.
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Adyon



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote




...

>.>


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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

filecore wrote:
Holocauxt wrote:
Wait... so "Master/Author/Whatever Tat's Self-Insert is called" doesn't exist in Reality Zone!?


Or, reading the strip literally, you could come to the conclusion: "In reality, there are no gods and no masters". These things are only present if you let them be.



ERMAHGERD

nice n' simple
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Adyon



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

filecore wrote:
"Religion" is nothing. I suspect you are mixing "Christianity" with "religion"; "religion" is just a blanket term covering all forms of faith (including pro-feminist ones) and many branches of philosophy..

Religion is a way in which people practice their "faith" or beliefs". It is the organized way they decide what they believe. It's like how I say that people having a faith like Christianity is not a bad thing. It's when religion dictates how you should act against your judgement or causes people to repeat something out of no reason than it was repeated before that you run into problems. We have plenty of "religions". People decide what it is something said or meant, and they then proceed to go with group mentality and just act like assholes about things.

So to summarize...Religion=problematic. Faith=okey-dokey.

Also to follow-up Heretical Rants on that note:

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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

neh


Faith ranges from completely non-problematic (and sometimes maybe even mildly beneficial to some people who are not me) to completely horrible depending on what exactly it's faith about.
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Adyon



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah. The idea of faith itself doesn't produce bigots, etc. It's only when people get together and start deciding what to do with their beliefs and how they should "make other people believe" that they become bad.
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iskandar



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holocauxt wrote:
Gotta wonder:

If religion is a form of Patriarchy, are there any women-centric faiths out there? Barring Feminism, of course.


not really, I'm kind of a theology nut (raised catholic but more of a guy with a very strong moral code who believes in God but focuses more on living a good life and less on the lip service now) and so I think its important to address some of the misconceptions and false teachings that have arisen and I have seen a lot on this forum. Are there sexist parts, yes, but the truth is a lot more grey.. 1- and this is the mucho big one, the abrahamic religions don't believe God has a gender. Gender implies non completeness, the reason Adam needed a partner was because he was not God. One of the reasons sex is so important for the religions of the book/koran as in sex the two genders are reunited and life is created. Thus, at its foundation, no superior gender. Going forward, we have to remember that the bible and koran are products of their time. Way back when, women were not as useful as they were now, something forgotten by a lot of feminists decrying the past. Its easy to look at it in retrospect, but when you are in a society that runs on raiding/herding/intensive farming men in the field women at home makes a lot of sense. We forget how much the world has changed in the past century or so, physical strength has become less and less important (until you needed furniture moved and suddenly all my skinny friends who make fun of me are calling up my 22 inch shoulders and promising free noms).

So, the actual theology of the abrahamic religions at least teaches equality of the sexes (note, deuteronomy and most of the old testament is NON CANON/MIXED CANON for catholics and if you look at the torah, a ton of it is dedicated towards interpreting the law for a different time. The rules and fine print of the bible yes do favor women in the kitchen, but the theology doesn't. Think of theology as the theory and the rules as the practice, in that time the practice meant that men were needed at the field or with a shield which meant that women needed to be raising more kids since so many died in infancy or were killed in battle or in the kitchen doing odd jobs to help support the men. Feminism was in large part greatly aided by changing economics, women simply could do more as the economy became less strength based.

Thus, when you look at how religion actually views the genders, its actually very non patriarchal, one of the reasons why the early adopters of christianity were slaves or women. For example, look at how all three religions approach sex, I know islam and xtianity better so I will stick with them. Catholic church teaching emphasizes both the mutual pleasure of both people as well as the making of babies. Heck, medieval medicine used to believe the female orgasm was key for fertilization and church teaching has kept up with this. St. Augustine did set back a lot of the churches viewpoints on sex, but that was mostly because of his regrets from a life of partying and his influence has been removed for the most part. In short, islam and christianity view sex in a very feminist way. Heck, Islam places a huge focus on the woman's pleasure.

Obviously, sex is supposed to occur within marriage but marriage too is supposed to be a very gender neutral thing, two people supporting each other. Note, the who women submit to your husbands thing is a huge line busted out time and time again based upon a false reading. Submit, coming fro the latin sub missio used to mean "going under the mission of" i.e. allowing a person to accomplish their task or helping them and the man's mission is to love their wives, wives submitting to their husbands is supposed to mean wives "allowing" or "helping" their husbands love them translation, mutually supporting and loving marriage.

As for the often brought up issue of rape in the old testament, a lot of what is referred to as rape their is more along the lines of a man seducing an unmarried woman, the law allowing women to force the men to marry them is to put consequences on men impregnating women and abandoning the kids. Obviously, the times have changed as well as the attitudes on pre-marital sex and the economy has changed to. A woman trying to raise kids on her own is no longer a death sentence. The bible is also full of what we would consider rape, don't get me wrong, I am not trying to whitewash things, but in large part this is less a "har har I have you now my pretty now you must marry me" and more of a ancient form of child support.

God this is getting long, sorry. Moving on to a huge one, Abortion. The less I say about this the better, but if you believed someone or something was causing murder, wouldn't you try to stop it? Agree with it or not (I am against it, but thats not important) the sentiment is not to keep women down, its to protect the sanctity of life, be it misguided or true, this is always a noble sentiment.

As for the whole women as priests thing, priests are supposed to sacrifice their sexuality (in the catholic church) and they take the church as their bride, much as Jesus did. The church (the congregation) is seen as a female and Jesus (acting through the priest) is male and so they "marry" each other. This is more a case of doctrine than anything else, not really sexism. Dunno enough about imams or rabbis to speak about them.

Contraception- Sex is important for the religions of the book, really really important. Sex is when male and female reunite and they make life, essentially becoming God for a short amount of time. Thus, the big deal about contraception is the sterilization of sex and the removal of the life giving aspect of this. Once again, not a lets keep women down thing, more of a theology issue. Note, the church does fully support natural family planning which revolves around the biological signals that a woman is fertile (NOT RHYTHYM METHOD, much more accurate!) my wife and I used it for a while when were still setting a strong foundation and we could not afford more kids than the son we already had, it worked for 10 years (off and on, we raised 3 kids in that time) straight without fail, though it does recquire being attentive and not being able to have sex for 10 days out of the month or so did kind of suck. That being said, its surprising how much more important romance becomes when sex is out of the picture for a while.

So, thats about it on the major conceptual issues I find, sorry for the long post but there is a lack of knowledge about all of this that can be harmful.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

must... not... engage... in... retarded... debate....
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iskandar



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
must... not... engage... in... retarded... debate....


whats wrong with getting involved in a late debate?
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