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Heretical Rants · Joined: 21 Jul 2009 Posts: 3036

That's not even in the top ten for things you could have linked to for that.

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ChastMastr · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:16 am Post subject:

Succubus1982 · Joined: 07 Oct 2009 Posts: 919 Location: England

Samsally · Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 5302

So I had this really mean snarky breakdown of what you just said but I've decided to at least try to not be an asshole about this.

First up: It is okay to like problematic things.
Second: It is NOT okay to justify them, brush them off, or otherwise act like they are not problematic.

Own up to the fact that "seme/uke" is a problematic stereotype. Own up to the fact that -fiction really does affect reality-. Own up to the fact that "Let's agree to disagree" doesn't work in this situation because what you did right there? The "It's okay because it's not real" argument? That is the exact same terrible argument all the sexist mooks have been throwing around to excuse all the piles of abusive porn that makes some men think it's okay to use and abuse women.

I honestly don't give a shit if you like gay porn or not. I don't care if you like huge power differentials. Fine, whatever. But it is NEVER okay to dismiss someone's concerns with a problematic stereotype because "fiction isn't real".
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Samsally the Gray

Succubus1982 · Joined: 07 Oct 2009 Posts: 919 Location: England

Okay. I appreciate your view. And I agree that when the fiction is taken out of context in reality it can be problematic. But I still personally feel the fiction itself is not inherently evil. It is like anything in the world able to be misused by people however and that is something that you will encounter with anything. It's like people who claim violent videogames made them go out and kill people. I have played such games for years and never had the urge to go and murder someone on the street, I guess it's a case of different people are affected different ways by different things. But I do appreciate the validity of your concerns. And I did not mean any personal offense by my comments, only wanted to make it clear why I felt the fiction was innocent and why I was chosing to apply it to the comic (because both are works of fiction and thus I felt it was safe to do so, however had it been a topic discussing how real life couples ought to behave I would have of course responded differently)

Miss Magenta · Joined: 09 Jun 2011 Posts: 1444 Location: Ohio

there's nothing wrong with the fact that it's fiction, it's just the aspects of it is that are. i.e; yaoi and the seme/uke roles associated with it are kind of fetishistic and objectifying portrayal of homosexuals. there's nothing wrong with whether or not you're into that shit, or like the portrayals or w/e. and liking it doesn't mean you're gonna go out and fetishize homosexuals or whatever. i really don't care whether or not you do that, i really don't, cuz that's your business not mine.

but all i'm saying is his name doesn't have to literally be some silly, problematic stereotypical role. come on. mr. uke? that's a terrible name even WITHOUT the problematic implications of the terms.
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ShadowCell · Joined: 03 Aug 2008 Posts: 5249 Location: California

besides which, calling him the "uke" doesn't even make sense. the uke is the sniveling spineless submissive one who often gets raped by the big bad assertive seme but later realizes that they enjoyed it because rape is a magical expression of love in yaoiland or what the fuck ever. this character is way too cheerful and assertive and self-confident. the uke is all about being helpless vulnerable broken goods to be nurtured and protected by the big strong seme and his soothing rapestick.

Yinello · Joined: 10 May 2012 Posts: 1202 Location: Behind you

ShadowCell, you must be a poet in real life.
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Sinfest Comments Bingo because we like Schadenfreude~

Samsally · Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 5302

Truly, Captain Tarantula is a word-smith at heart.
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Samsally the Gray

Miss Magenta · Joined: 09 Jun 2011 Posts: 1444 Location: Ohio

what a way with words. swoon~ <3
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Heretical Rants · Joined: 21 Jul 2009 Posts: 3036

yea, I would have just said that I didn't think he fit that role

actually I had been about to say that

but ShadowCell put that idea to such cool words
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ChastMastr · Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:11 am Post subject:

Um... perhaps it's the part of the community I'm in... but almost everyone I know really does tend to fall into the top or bottom category, with not a lot of genuine versatility. (It's there, but comparatively rare.) Bottoms also outnumber tops by a fair amount. And while the latter is a bit frustrating for all of us, I don't see it as problematic for us at all...

Mind you, I have very little contact with the more vanilla end of the spectrum. Perhaps I'm like some sort of unusual sea creature who lives near those volcanic vents, and who does not understand the ecosystem of life on the land very well--only, you know, with leather instead of volcanic vents.

Miss Magenta · Joined: 09 Jun 2011 Posts: 1444 Location: Ohio

there's nothing wrong with identifying as a top or a bottom, but top/bottom roles and seme/uke roles while similar are WAY different. because top/bottom roles are REAL PEOPLE in REAL RELATIONSHIPS that CHOSE to be in those roles, while seme/uke roles are FICTIONAL PEOPLE in FICTIONAL RELATIONSHIPS in a FETISHISTIC JAPANESE GENRE that has a lot of problematic themes.

i.e the consent issues that shadowcell mentioned.
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iskandar · Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:43 am Post subject: