welcome to the fest
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

8/19 the protagonist returns
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ChastMastr



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 472
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida, US

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
Hell Ponies? Surprised


Well, if you insist...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 5344
Location: No.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's not even in the top ten for things you could have linked to for that.

newbbbbbb
_________________
butts
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ChastMastr



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 472
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida, US

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
newbbbbbb


Why, yes. Yes, I am. Smile

Here, try this then:

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Succubus1982



Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 919
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miss Magenta wrote:
Or you could call him something that isn't associated with the problematic objectification and portrayal of homosexuals in fiction.


It's only problematic if you're of the mind set to object to it. Personally I see that sort of fiction precisely as it is..... FICTION. And thus having no connotations with real-life homosexuals. The problem only arises when people cannot get the difference between fiction and reality. Which is not something I suffer from. I know full well that homosexual relationships in reality do not have a dominant and submissive pairing pattern always. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. But usually when they do it's because those involved chose to make it that way. I only mention the terms here because a) this comic is also fiction so why not apply fictional terms to it b) the character's behaviour certainly fits with many of those fictional stereotypes, and as this is a comic made up of stereotypes it certainly wouldn't be the bizarrest conclusion to reach. Anyway... you are free to do however pleases you best, this forum is more than big enough for everyone to have their own opinions and viewpoints and I have no intention of clashing with anyone over theirs or whether they agree with mine or not. Nor do I much care if my liking said fiction marks me as a 'idiot' in general consensus. That is merely a consequence of differing opinons.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6375

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I had this really mean snarky breakdown of what you just said but I've decided to at least try to not be an asshole about this.

First up: It is okay to like problematic things.
Second: It is NOT okay to justify them, brush them off, or otherwise act like they are not problematic.

Own up to the fact that "seme/uke" is a problematic stereotype. Own up to the fact that -fiction really does affect reality-. Own up to the fact that "Let's agree to disagree" doesn't work in this situation because what you did right there? The "It's okay because it's not real" argument? That is the exact same terrible argument all the sexist mooks have been throwing around to excuse all the piles of abusive porn that makes some men think it's okay to use and abuse women.

I honestly don't give a shit if you like gay porn or not. I don't care if you like huge power differentials. Fine, whatever. But it is NEVER okay to dismiss someone's concerns with a problematic stereotype because "fiction isn't real".
_________________
Samsally the GrayAce
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Succubus1982



Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 919
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay. I appreciate your view. And I agree that when the fiction is taken out of context in reality it can be problematic. But I still personally feel the fiction itself is not inherently evil. It is like anything in the world able to be misused by people however and that is something that you will encounter with anything. It's like people who claim violent videogames made them go out and kill people. I have played such games for years and never had the urge to go and murder someone on the street, I guess it's a case of different people are affected different ways by different things. But I do appreciate the validity of your concerns. And I did not mean any personal offense by my comments, only wanted to make it clear why I felt the fiction was innocent and why I was chosing to apply it to the comic (because both are works of fiction and thus I felt it was safe to do so, however had it been a topic discussing how real life couples ought to behave I would have of course responded differently)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 1804
Location: im probably asleep right now

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there's nothing wrong with the fact that it's fiction, it's just the aspects of it is that are. i.e; yaoi and the seme/uke roles associated with it are kind of fetishistic and objectifying portrayal of homosexuals. there's nothing wrong with whether or not you're into that shit, or like the portrayals or w/e. and liking it doesn't mean you're gonna go out and fetishize homosexuals or whatever. i really don't care whether or not you do that, i really don't, cuz that's your business not mine.

but all i'm saying is his name doesn't have to literally be some silly, problematic stereotypical role. come on. mr. uke? that's a terrible name even WITHOUT the problematic implications of the terms.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6039
Location: California

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

besides which, calling him the "uke" doesn't even make sense. the uke is the sniveling spineless submissive one who often gets raped by the big bad assertive seme but later realizes that they enjoyed it because rape is a magical expression of love in yaoiland or what the fuck ever. this character is way too cheerful and assertive and self-confident. the uke is all about being helpless vulnerable broken goods to be nurtured and protected by the big strong seme and his soothing rapestick.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2664
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell, you must be a poet in real life.
_________________
Help. Help, my eyes are stuck from rolling so hard. Help.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6375

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Truly, Captain Tarantula is a word-smith at heart.
_________________
Samsally the GrayAce
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 1804
Location: im probably asleep right now

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what a way with words. swoon~ <3
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 5344
Location: No.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yea, I would have just said that I didn't think he fit that role

actually I had been about to say that

but ShadowCell put that idea to such cool words
_________________
butts
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ChastMastr



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 472
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida, US

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um... perhaps it's the part of the community I'm in... but almost everyone I know really does tend to fall into the top or bottom category, with not a lot of genuine versatility. (It's there, but comparatively rare.) Bottoms also outnumber tops by a fair amount. And while the latter is a bit frustrating for all of us, I don't see it as problematic for us at all...

Mind you, I have very little contact with the more vanilla end of the spectrum. Perhaps I'm like some sort of unusual sea creature who lives near those volcanic vents, and who does not understand the ecosystem of life on the land very well--only, you know, with leather instead of volcanic vents.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 1804
Location: im probably asleep right now

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there's nothing wrong with identifying as a top or a bottom, but top/bottom roles and seme/uke roles while similar are WAY different. because top/bottom roles are REAL PEOPLE in REAL RELATIONSHIPS that CHOSE to be in those roles, while seme/uke roles are FICTIONAL PEOPLE in FICTIONAL RELATIONSHIPS in a FETISHISTIC JAPANESE GENRE that has a lot of problematic themes.

i.e the consent issues that shadowcell mentioned.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
iskandar



Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 159
Location: Boston, Massachussets

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChastMastr wrote:
Um... perhaps it's the part of the community I'm in... but almost everyone I know really does tend to fall into the top or bottom category, with not a lot of genuine versatility. (It's there, but comparatively rare.) Bottoms also outnumber tops by a fair amount. And while the latter is a bit frustrating for all of us, I don't see it as problematic for us at all...

Mind you, I have very little contact with the more vanilla end of the spectrum. Perhaps I'm like some sort of unusual sea creature who lives near those volcanic vents, and who does not understand the ecosystem of life on the land very well--only, you know, with leather instead of volcanic vents.


I don't think that is actually that rare. Having lived in the castro district back in the eighties (my wife found a house there when we were moving to san francisco) all of my gay friends (and for those of you who know what the castro district is, you have some inkling as to the general people we interacted with on a daily basis) generally fell into one or the other. I remember talking to one of them about this (unfortunately not a lot of my old friends from those days are still alive, they were among the first groups to be hit by aids, rest in peace guys) and he pretty much said that top/bottom was a lot like gender for them. Dunno if that has changed with the times or not.
_________________
Marriage begins with a man on his knees giving a woman jewelry and asking for permission to do something. Pretty much sets the tone for the next 40 years.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Page 7 of 8

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group