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Aug. 23: Curses, foiled again!
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ktern



Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 944

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ugh i hate it when that happens. those inconsiderate jerks, changing the geography of the place
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Maynar



Joined: 26 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EmptyOnion wrote:
Kind of curious why she keeps him as a friend.

They don't seem to socialize past him failing to hit on her.


You have been reading the comic how long?
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EmptyOnion



Joined: 13 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maynar wrote:
EmptyOnion wrote:
Kind of curious why she keeps him as a friend.

They don't seem to socialize past him failing to hit on her.


You have been reading the comic how long?
from the start, save the few weeks here and there when travel and work prevents Internet for fun.

Long enough at least to remember tons of slick literally losing his heart because of her ass... And the drooling, and the somewhat desperate attempts, and how even when they are walking together slick acts like well... Slick.
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iskandar



Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 159
Location: Boston, Massachussets

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EmptyOnion wrote:
Maynar wrote:
EmptyOnion wrote:
Kind of curious why she keeps him as a friend.

They don't seem to socialize past him failing to hit on her.


You have been reading the comic how long?
from the start, save the few weeks here and there when travel and work prevents Internet for fun.

Long enough at least to remember tons of slick literally losing his heart because of her ass... And the drooling, and the somewhat desperate attempts, and how even when they are walking together slick acts like well... Slick.


this is kinda the problem with the latest developments in sinfest. slick and monique kinda evolved together in a symbiotic relationship. It started with monique as the desperate for sex attention whore (sorry for the language) and slick as the just as desperate for sex guy who wants to bang nique. They both fit in perfectly, as time went on, slick became a better friend to nique and nique dropped a lot of the desperate for sex part, though she always did like the attention. Right before the sisterhood hit their relationship was at its peak, slick was capable of giving hugs without (too much) boner and was able to lose a lot of the sex crazed part, he still wanted it but was capable of seeing women as something more. 'Nique also lost a lot of the attention whoring stuff, so she no longer deliberately incited that behavior from slick for her own enjoyment. Then the sisterhood angle hit and everything went to hell. After a conversation with trike girl slick and then getting bomfed in a hug fight, slick was reduced back to his old self, with a devil in him now too and 'nique has abandoned a lot of the fun loving mockery side (look at how she tried to unionize the devil girls, or her being a real badass (sorry glossy, show don't tell) and throwing a sledgehammer through the capitalist brainwashing screen. She was fighting for justice, but was also capable of being light hearted about it) and gone into andronique, who is pretty much a member of the sisterhood with slightly better social skills and no trike. Which is why their relationship seems so off to us now, as we have had a year of the patriarchy arc between the surprisingly decent bond they had and the people they are now.
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ktern



Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 944

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so you don't like the new sinfest and you don't want old sinfest, either. okay

anyhow i'm hoping they don't just leave it at today's strip, i'd like to see another slick/'nique story after all this time
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iskandar



Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 159
Location: Boston, Massachussets

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ktern wrote:
so you don't like the new sinfest and you don't want old sinfest, either. okay

anyhow i'm hoping they don't just leave it at today's strip, i'd like to see another slick/'nique story after all this time


I would like to see their relationship begin to restart. You are right, I don't particularly enjoy the new sinfest (I enjoy reading it, but its become a bit meh, decent but no the supreme level it used to be at) and I don't want the old sinfest. The thing is, over 12 years all of these characters evolved and its really frustrating to see 11 years of character development and change be thrown out the window so a mary sue on a trike can tell you how evil you are. Sinfest was always moving forward when it came to slick and nique, at first it was cringe worthy at a lot of times, but with time it became something that had some of the sweetness in the criminy/fyoosh story but also had some of the classic sinfest character flaws and sarcasm. Slick changed slower than nique but he was still changing, now one bomf later and he has been turned into a plot device rather than a well rounded character like he used to be. Same thing with nique, at her best she was what glossy and the sisterhood should strive to be, she fought for justice but kept a sense of fun, we did not need a guy (I am calling him Gilgamesh) say "so badass" to know she was a badass, with her tat showed, not told. I have no problem with the patriarchy arc at its fundamental nature, feminism vs patriarchy, devil vs do gooders. But if you think about it, the devil is a character here, god is a character here slick, nique, squig, crim, fyoosh, blue, they are all characters, with personalities, flaws and quirks. The sisterhood is a plot device. Its not that they are never wrong that's my problem (though it can be annoying) its the fact that they are charmless, generic and really not very pleasant. Hell, even seymour is more likeable, at least he is capable of personal interaction with others that don't agree with him.

That and the fact that third wave feminism is pretty much presented as fake really kinda pissed me off. As someone who was born in the fifties and has seen feminism change as time goes on (and once was attacked by a group of protestors because my (now wife then girlfriend) thought it would be funny to shout at people chanting "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bycicle" "don't knock it til you tried it" and then they all thought it was my fault she had been brainwashed by the patriarchy) it kinda pains me to see the work of a lot of women (the fight between second wave and third wave feminism was vicious, especially in academia) who were attacked from all sides, get denigrated just because they felt like bringing feminism into tune with real life.
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Last edited by iskandar on Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
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Location: im probably asleep right now

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iskandar wrote:
mary sue


you keep on using that word. i do not think it means what you think it means.
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iskandar



Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 159
Location: Boston, Massachussets

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miss Magenta wrote:
iskandar wrote:
mary sue


you keep on using that word. i do not think it means what you think it means.


a mary sue is a term that first originated with the 1974 fan fic "a trekkies tale" (which as someone who was a trekhead at the time can safely say sucked) which containe the character mary sue who came to define a genre of characters in the trekkie fan fic community who were almsot always girls and were usually ultra talented hotties who shacked up with kirk and died in ways to reinforce their purity. In modern parlance its a catch all term for characters who are one dimensional, always correct, lack flaws and in general are usually the author putting themself or their views into the context of fiction to show how perfect they are. Yes, I used to read trekkie fanzines before the internet came and allowed any old person to suddenly have access to fan fiction. Back in my day you would have to go to conventions and get copies of them. and the convetion center was 20 miles away. And you walked. with nothing in your belly but the fires of work ethic. and you had to fight lions there on the way too!

The trike girls have 1- acted like jerks at times (no juice for you devil bouncer guy, teach you to be born with a y chromosome). 2- are always successful. 3- are universally loved by the sympathetic characters (fyoosh, granny, Gilgamesh, nique ect) 4- have been able to convert anyone they try (except for slick) with their flawless logic. 5- have little to no defining personality except for the fact that they are perfect and right. Notice the trike scene with gilgamesh, "so badass" "badass" "license to kick ass", mary sues are usually told not shown.

you just broke the second rule of life: never argue with a trek head, WHEN PRIDE IS ON THE LINE AHAHAHAHAHAHA-falls dead.

edit: mary sue being brought up actually made me go back and read the old thing on the interwebz (ahh, old memories) and I forgot to mention mary sue was supposed to be a parody of that kind of character. sorry, have had a few bumps to the head since then, my memory ain't like it used to be)
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LarsenSan



Joined: 11 May 2012
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never ever stay in the friendzone. Better end once and for all and move on.
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iskandar



Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 159
Location: Boston, Massachussets

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LarsenSan wrote:
Never ever stay in the friendzone. Better end once and for all and move on.


a friendship is a friendship. If you are incapable of seeing yourselves as friends with a girl you are dating without the dating part added in, you probably should not be dating them because it aint going to last at all. Just a little advice from an old man who has seen a lot.
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 1077
Location: Hedonism

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People should feel lucky that they even get to the friend zone.

If the "friend zone" was a house, I tend to be across the city, digging through my couch for bus fare to get to the bus stop that's 5 miles from the house.
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iskandar



Joined: 11 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:
People should feel lucky that they even get to the friend zone.

If the "friend zone" was a house, I tend to be across the city, digging through my couch for bus fare to get to the bus stop that's 5 miles from the house.


don't worry about the numbers, its the last one that counts. Think of it like good and evil. Good has to be eternally successful otherwise it fails. Evil can fail 99% of the time but if it succeeds that 1%, it wins. Think evil. And God that metaphor is a lot more twisted in retrospect.
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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 1656
Location: im probably asleep right now

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i like how you responded to my princess bride reference with another princess bride reference. that was kinda rad.

but yo, but the term mary sue is kind of sexist not to mention there isn't anything really bad about mary sues to begin with. a female character is presented as always right and overpowered and stuff? cool, i don't see a problem here.

moving on.

i don't understand how you can see jerkish behavior in that interaction with legion? i mean it's hella anti-social, yeah, and i'm not saying it was the most appropriate response, but what you're basically saying it's a jerk move to prevent someone from grabbing something that is not meant for them. am i suddenly a jerk if i decide to make something for my friends - or in glossy's case something like a group of people who face objectification and cannot seem to get jobs that don't involve sexual undertones while their male counterparts don't seem to have that same problem - and don't want to share with anyone who the items aren't meant for? i disagree with the implications of that.

yes, she's shown to be always successful and yes that's something tat needs to improve on. perhaps someone who is intellectually equal to her, and opposes her. like crim, for instance, since he was apart of slick and squig's resistance. and i'm not going to argue with that. i don't see anything inherently wrong with it, but sure. if it bugs you that she's always successful, while others aren't, that's cool. i have a lot of issues about even sillier things, so whatever.

but she is NOT universally loved by all of the sympathetic characters - crim does not care for her, li'l e does not care for her, i'd say slick certainly counts as sympathetic even though he's a jerk at times and he certainly does not view her in a positive light. what's more is fuchsia does NOT care for her at all, either. yes, she finally gathered the courage to leave devil mansion when she was told that she was her own person, but that does NOT mean she cares about her at all. nique doesn't have any personal feelings for her, but definitely cares about the message she spreads. perhaps they're friends, perhaps they're not. they don't even interact enough for you to get the idea that nique likes HER. the only characters who are confirmed as liking HER, AS A PERSON, are guy and granny - who could possibly be related to her - and her fellow sisterhood members. and even then, in the case of the latter, it's dubious as they've never actually interacted once.

she's only ever been able to actually convert nique so i don't really know where you're getting the whole HAS BEEN ABLE TO CONVERT ANYONE WITH THEIR FLAWLESS LOGIC thing. uh.

yes, she doesn't have much of a defining personality in comparison to everyone else, and i wish that'd be touched upon, but while she doesn't have much - there is some there. there are implications that she's angry and [in] pain over something - not sure what though - she's sassy as hell, she's kind of anti-social, she has a soft-spot for cute things, and likes to write fanfiction. yeah, that's about it, and i'd like to see more, but i'll take what i can.

i get the feeling that she's meant to be like some sort of twist on radical feminism. like, a feminist who is radical. not a completely traditional radical feminist, but a TOTALLY RADICAL \m/ feminist, you know? like. a surfing "radical, lets go catch some sweet-ass waves" feminist. if not, that's what should be going down.

like. tat should have her go surfing with other sisterhood members and shit like that. i wish he'd do what he did with crim, slick and squig during the matriarchy arcs and have them just all be a bunch of HUMONGOUS DORKS (WHO ARE CAPABLE OF KICKING ASS) together. but at the same time if they're meant to be complete opposites of the resistance then it'd be appropriate that they're always seen in the supposed SERIOUS-NO-FUN kind of light.
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iskandar



Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 159
Location: Boston, Massachussets

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miss Magenta wrote:
i like how you responded to my princess bride reference with another princess bride reference. that was kinda rad.


I may be a curmudgeonly 58 year old retired wrestler turned retired lawyer who spends too much time on the internet, but dammit I'm a cool one. At least my wife thinks I'm cool. (my wife just read that and laughed, apparently not)

Miss Magenta wrote:
]but yo, but the term mary sue is kind of sexist not to mention there isn't anything really bad about mary sues to begin with. a female character is presented as always right and overpowered and stuff? cool, i don't see a problem here.


You have a great point here. I think this idea exists mostly because of mary sues roots in fan fiction which is a genre that is dominated and usually written for women. Fan fiction also carries with it the usual stereotype of being poorly written, which does not help. However, if you look at the first example, Batman, he really gets away with it because he is an icon as well as being usually well written. Look at the 90's in comic books, there was a huge backlash against the marty stues and there still is. However, you are right in that women are more quickly accused of it than men.

Miss Magenta wrote:
i don't understand how you can see jerkish behavior in that interaction with legion? i mean it's hella anti-social, yeah, and i'm not saying it was the most appropriate response, but what you're basically saying it's a jerk move to prevent someone from grabbing something that is not meant for them. am i suddenly a jerk if i decide to make something for my friends - or in glossy's case something like a group of people who face objectification and cannot seem to get jobs that don't involve sexual undertones while their male counterparts don't seem to have that same problem - and don't want to share with anyone who the items aren't meant for? i disagree with the implications of that.


You've got a point, but I think this is a case where implications matter. When you have a character presented as a radical feminist, when you have her essentially say "no drink for you because you are the wrong gender" it carries added baggage. Also, quick note for those of you who have never worked as a bouncer (its been an interesting life) its a shite job, worse paid than the strippers themselves and incredibly dangerous, besides the devil he is really the only male devil shown and he has just as crappy of a job with the same gender segmentation. Devil girls have to be sexy, devil guy has to be in a poorly paid dangerous job where yu have to risk your life. Two sides of the same coin. As for the universal love or not, you are right in that we don't see love for her as a person, but generally the sisterhood is seen as being right by almost all the non slick good characters they interact with.

Quote:
she's only ever been able to actually convert nique so i don't really know where you're getting the whole HAS BEEN ABLE TO CONVERT ANYONE WITH THEIR FLAWLESS LOGIC thing. uh.


'Nique, Fyoosh (it was trike that really got her to finally break all ties with the devil), Squigley slowly but surely. Indirectly including this strip which I think is the ultimate parody of what the patriarchy arc has been: http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4274

Miss Magenta wrote:
yes, she doesn't have much of a defining personality in comparison to everyone else, and i wish that'd be touched upon, but while she doesn't have much - there is some there. there are implications that she's angry and [in] pain over something - not sure what though - she's sassy as hell, she's kind of anti-social, she has a soft-spot for cute things, and likes to write fanfiction. yeah, that's about it, and i'd like to see more, but i'll take what i can.


I did love the fifty shades of grey strip (wife wants to type, giving keyboard to her)- as an older married woman (basically what the fifty shades of grey series is marketed to) I don't really get how a rich man essentially signing a young virgin to a rape contract is supposed to be romantic. Safe sane and consensual, that's fine. Money, bondage and sexual assault? What the heck? Anyway, giving keyboard back to husband, don't let him irritate you too much, he means well but is a bit stupid sometimes.

Miss Magenta wrote:
i get the feeling that she's meant to be like some sort of twist on radical feminism. like, a feminist who is radical. not a completely traditional radical feminist, but a TOTALLY RADICAL \m/ feminist, you know? like. a surfing "radical, lets go catch some sweet-ass waves" feminist. if not, that's what should be going down.


OH GOD I THOUGH WE HAD KILLED "RADICAL DUDE" CULTURE. It never stays dead, always just gets back up with those soul less, red from the pot eyes.

Miss Magenta wrote:
i wish he'd do what he did with crim, slick and squig during the matriarchy arcs and have them just all be a bunch of HUMONGOUS DORKS (WHO ARE CAPABLE OF KICKING ASS) together.


that would be really cool, it would fit in a lot better to sinfest's spirit and I think would actually get the point across better. Not to mention it would be hilarious. But they aren't exactly the opposite of the resistance. Both men and women feel that parts of society are stacked against them. men feel like the home life is biased towards women, thanks to them having less control on purchases, less of an impact on kids and also face the brunt of the punishment of divorce settlements. Which is why in many ways you have a male culture dedicated towards cheap sex (the resistance) its a way of feeling appreciated (sex does tend to do that) for being more than a wallet on legs who is expected to die to protect others (look at how grade school teaches kids, boys are told to be firemen or police office, and this is continued in pop culture, boys are taught that there lives are worth less than a woman's and that they should rush to sacrifice themselves) without the added perceived dangers of divorce and the financial burden it can be as well as losing custody of kids and such.

The sisterhood, on the other hand is a reaction to the lack of the presence of women in the public sphere and a general lack of power at the top as well as a reaction to a society that sees them purely in terms of sex objects. I think that the resistance and the sisterhood had some of the same goals at heart, even though the resistance was played for laughs. The resistance was against the idea that men should be success objects who only matter if they are supporting a family. The sisterhood is against the opposite side of the coin, that women should be defined more by just their family but that they should also be allowed to gain that success. Its two groups struggling against the same system.
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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
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Location: im probably asleep right now

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iskandar wrote:
'Nique, Fyoosh (it was trike that really got her to finally break all ties with the devil), Squigley slowly but surely. Indirectly including this strip which I think is the ultimate parody of what the patriarchy arc has been: http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4274


She's converted Nique - yes. But she hasn't actually converted Fyoosh to anything. She inspired Fyoosh to have the courage to do something she's already wanted to do for a while, and that's... that's it. Converting someone to a belief (that they already agree with) and giving someone courage (to do something they already wanted to do) aren't really the same thing. So only one person has been converted to anything she believes in. While another person has been given encouragement to do something they genuinely wanted to do, but not converted to any sort of beliefs.

Meanwhile, she's never actually interacted with Squig much. She spoke to him once, when he said he felt like meat ("Doesn't feel so good, does it?") and that was it. Someone ELSE altogether is the one whose been speaking with Squig and trying to convert him. They're both members of the same organization, but different people. So that doesn't really fit in with your argument. 9_9
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