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Sept. 5th: Don't you ever change.
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Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 475

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
so i guess the difference would be that dogen hates the activity (but not the people), while ember778 hates the people (no matter what they are doing).
Question Sorry to continue talking about this, but now I really am confused..... feminism is permanent?

It seemed to me--anyway--that "being a feminist" was more akin to "being a mislabler" than it was to "being a hummer."

I thought it was a belief you could either be active in doing or not. I was unaware feminists could never not be feminists.
Is it like sexual orientation?


Edit:
I thought about it a bit more and I think I get it. Are you saying "Hate the sin not the sinner" ?

You feel it's ok to hate the ACT of feminism, but not the feminist; is that what you mean? You're upset that Ember778 did not specify?
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, hummer was a bad example; i used it because i didn't want to specify a group of people (i hate republicans or i hate tea partiers) because i can always hope they reform.

and of course feminists can become non-feminists. feminism is not an inborn trait, it's a belief, and you can always change your beliefs. not sure what would cause someone to change their beliefs about the fundamental rights of people of different genders, but people can suddenly latch on to entirely unlikely beliefs - hence all the people who join weird cults.

so yeah, i believe it is ok to hate what someone or a group of someones does or thinks, but it is not ok to hate all of those people, just because they do or think one specific thing. so yes, hate the sin but love the sinner. or at least, don't hate them, just because they sin.

and Ember788 was very clear - he hates the _people_.
Ember788 wrote:
Hell I'd be willing to put down a few hundred to take a couple shots at the feminists. Hate 'em. All of 'em


apparently just because some webcomic shut down. doubly silly, because i suspect the majority of feminists never even heard of said webcomic, let alone were active in shutting it down. so why hate them for it?
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Cley Faye



Joined: 27 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tricksterson wrote:
Ronald wrote:
I dunno, after seeing him being all super-corporate and so on for so long, it's a bit jarring to see him personally managing a booth again.


I suspect that, after all the hoohah over the Sisterhood arc, Tats is trying to get back to his roots.


That would be good, I suppose. Just recently I was rereading the first years of Sinfest, and while I still enjoy it now, it really changed this last year or so Confused
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Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse, I think I am getting closer to understanding, but this statement still seems rather indiscriminate to me:
Dogen wrote:
I just want to punch everyone who starts a thread for the daily strip but doesn't put the date in the title.


Therefor, I am still of the opinion that for Dogen--at least--it was the specific use of the word "hate" that elicited his disbelief.

Contextually, I can see very little differences between the two statements, other than that particular word. So, while you, mouse, might think it's ok to hate the act but not the person, I am very unsure if Dogen shares that viewpoint.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, but dogen didn't say he hated those people - just that he wants to punch them in certain instances. you can punch, hit, scream at, do all sorts of unpleasant things to people without hating them (do you not have siblings?)

granted, i shouldn't be speaking as to what dogen was really thinking - but he has not struck me as a hater. a yeller, an insulter, perhaps even a puncher - but not a hater.

ember is a hater.
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Ember778



Joined: 02 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
well, but dogen didn't say he hated those people - just that he wants to punch them in certain instances. you can punch, hit, scream at, do all sorts of unpleasant things to people without hating them (do you not have siblings?)

granted, i shouldn't be speaking as to what dogen was really thinking - but he has not struck me as a hater. a yeller, an insulter, perhaps even a puncher - but not a hater.

ember is a hater.


Haters gonna hate.

I saw my name a few times and figured I'd clarify.

The webcomic I was talking about was this one by the way. I just don't really care for the feminism arc. He turned Slick into a guttural person and Nique into a feminist. I miss the Sinfest where it's Slick the sorta loser hitting on a strong female (but not feminist).

But that's my own opinion.

As for the whole hate thing that was just an exaggeration. I'm not a fan of what they're doing to the world, but I don't genuinely hate them. I just dislike them.
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Lich Mong



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
well, but dogen didn't say he hated those people - just that he wants to punch them in certain instances.
Right, that's what I'm saying. Dogen did not use the word and Ember788 did.

So, reading this it seems to me that Dogen really was in disbelif over the use of the word "hate." Generally, punching people is more harmful to them than throwing fruit at them (not always true, obviously context is important, but I would hope we can at least agree the actions are marginally different in harm).

It's clear that Dogen feels his statements are perfectly fine, yet he reacted strongly to Ember788's statements. When pressed, Dogen defend his statements. He justified them by saying they did not mean to imply "hatred."

All of this leads me to the strong belief that --for Dogen-- that word is quite meaningful. Wanting to punching people? No big deal. But, professing to HATE them? Oh boy, that's bad!

Hence my interest in what he feels the word means. Additionally, for it to have mattered to Dogen he would have had to assume the word held the same meaning for Ember788, since it was Ember788's intent that seemed to matter to him.

Anyway, we should probably let Dogen explain. It's rude to talk about someone like they're not there.
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ShadowCell



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slick was always a crass little douchebag struggling not to be a Nice Guy but winding up that way anyways
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mouse



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ember778 wrote:

The webcomic I was talking about was this one by the way. I just don't really care for the feminism arc. He turned Slick into a guttural person and Nique into a feminist. I miss the Sinfest where it's Slick the sorta loser hitting on a strong female (but not feminist).


ah. so the webcomic continues just fine, it's just that you are hyperfocused on anything you perceive as 'feminist'. 'nique had always had revolutionary leanings, being a feminist goes right along with her whole history. but you can't stand that it is stated explicitly.

and of course, the course the strip has taken is determined by one person and one person only: tat. so because he now seems to be a feminist, you hate (or just dislike, how very kind of you) everyone of any stripe who identifies as a feminist? yeah, that's a balanced response.

and since it's a written strip, we really can't tell if slick's voice is guttural, or nasal, or a rather pleasing light tenor, let alone whether or not it has changed.
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Xalca



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:
Wanting to punching people? No big deal. But, professing to HATE them? Oh boy, that's bad!


I'm not sure if you are feigning ignorance for the sake of lulz, but if not:

It's worth noting that wanting to punch a person over the internet means very little because you are likely to never be within arm's reach of said person.

Hating an entire group of people because of their beliefs has greater impact because words have no boundary other than language and comprehension.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:

Anyway, we should probably let Dogen explain. It's rude to talk about someone like they're not there.


well, he's clearly not here, so we can talk about him behind his back all we like.

until he comes back and punches us. in which case, i'm going to duck behind you.
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Lich Mong



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xalca wrote:
I'm not sure if you are feigning ignorance for the sake of lulz, but if not:

It's worth noting that wanting to punch a person over the internet means very little because you are likely to never be within arm's reach of said person.

Hating an entire group of people because of their beliefs has greater impact because words have no boundary other than language and comprehension.
Well, this is kinda why I dislike talking on the internet, people jumping in without understanding the context. (to be fair i do it myself)
Go back and reread both posts in question and then tell me which you feel had more verbal malice in it. Minus the word "hate" I think it's pretty clear.
Here, I'll quote them both for you, just to make sure we are all on the same page:
Dogen wrote:
I just want to punch everyone who starts a thread for the daily strip but doesn't put the date in the title. I don't ask for much - I certainly don't get much from you bunch of assholes - all I want is to be able to ignore you misogynistic wankers for two or three days and then be able to pop in and catch up on the comic, in order, without reading anything you human failures write. But no. I have to click over to the main site and go through the archive because you can't figure out the convention that's been used for over a decade of putting the date in the title.


This comment may sound harsh, but it's just because you don't realize how truly, truly awful you are. I mean that in the nicest way possible. Kisses!
Ember778 wrote:
Rothide wrote:
If the 'poetry' is as anvilicious or vaporus as most of the feminist stuff thats been going on...

(Pulls out a 20) I'll take one if it doesn't cost the immortal soul...


20 dollars for one (rotten piece of fruit)? That's crazy. Then again he is the devil.

Hell I'd be willing to put down a few hundred to take a couple shots at the feminists. Hate 'em. All of 'em. They are the cause of one of my favorite webcomics downfall.
And please remember BOTH statements were made on the internet.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
Lich Mong wrote:

Anyway, we should probably let Dogen explain. It's rude to talk about someone like they're not there.


well, he's clearly not here, so we can talk about him behind his back all we like.

until he comes back and punches us. in which case, i'm going to duck behind you.


I have nothing to add, I just wanted to quote this because it is hysterical.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm the resident hater of men.

Unapologetically too so feel free to keep opinions on "hating" to yourself.

Edit: Dogen is the resident bleeding heart.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're both horrible influences, too. I'm now floating somewhere between the two, completely haphazard and mostly just disappointing everyone at some point or another.

(but really you are both awesome.)
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