welcome to the fest
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

2013-01-10: Repair
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10953
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SA_Penguin wrote:
Dogen wrote:
Your analogy is bad and you should feel bad.


OK, try this analogy:
1. You are a vegetarian.
2. You reject an offer of help - from someone who makes imitation meat products.

I would hope someone pushing the whole "porn is degrading" line, would be more careful not to mix who people are, with what they do for a living.

If Criminy had acted like that, Fuschia would still be with Blue.

How about:
1. You oppose poor logic.
2. You refuse to talk to someone who frequently engages in poor logic.

Now there's an analogy that's relevant to Glossy's situation. Smile
_________________
"Worse comes to worst, my people come first, but my tribe lives on every country on earth. Iíll do anything to protect them from hurt, the human race is what I serve." - Baba Brinkman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3352

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SA_Penguin wrote:
redshirt26 wrote:
And if I remember correctly, she gave some rather nice advise to a certain pinkish anti-villain with horns a year and half ago who was still on the side of the patriarchy. I can only imagine what would have happened had Glossy considered her the enemy and peddled right by.
http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4062

Ah, but don't forget - Fuschia is a girl devil. As such, nothing is really her fault. She's a victim of the Patriarchy.


What kind of snivelling man-child comment is that?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lol



Joined: 16 Nov 2012
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SA_Penguin wrote:

OK, try this analogy:
1. You are a vegetarian.
2. You reject an offer of help - from someone who makes imitation meat products.

I would hope someone pushing the whole "porn is degrading" line, would be more careful not to mix who people are, with what they do for a living.

Analogy still doesn't work. It avoids the fact that Milton actively supports the patriarchy....and Glossy has no idea if he's the type to sabotage her ride. It is logical that she'd refuse him.
redshirt26 wrote:

I don't hate Glossy. I respect what she stands for. What I don't like is that she is a Invincible Heroine who has had no character growth and is always shown winning and never losing a fight. But I understand that many people like her and I am most likely in the minority, so I don't always make a big fuss about it on the boards and ruin everyone's good time.

And if I remember correctly, she gave some rather nice advise to a certain pinkish anti-villain with horns a year and half ago who was still on the side of the patriarchy. I can only imagine what would have happened had Glossy considered her the enemy and peddled right by.

http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4062

Oddly enough, I'm not a Glossy fan myself. I agree with you. She, and the Sisterhood in general, is Mary Sue-ish and never struggles with anything; however, many seem to hate that she challenges sexism when she sees it. That is really unfortunate. Hate her because she's boring, not because she's fighting the patriarchy.

I'm not sure what you meant here. Glossy didn't approach Milton and treat him poorly. She actually had no problem with him standing there, and she politely refused his offer...then he imposed himself.

As cliche as it sounds, "no means no." Milton didn't accept it. Why is Glossy being criticized for that?
SA_Penguin wrote:

Ah, but don't forget - Fuschia is a girl devil. As such, nothing is really her fault. She's a victim of the Patriarchy.

It's not the same situation. I doubt Glossy would have let Fuschia repair her trike either.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2903
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
I'm not saying she has to become friends with the Devil, that's just dumb, but becoming friends with Milton can at least show you a differing viewpoint, that can only strengthen your personality and broaden your viewpoints.


The thing that annoys me is that she first turned him down politely and he keeps pushing. She obviously doesn't want to become friends with Milton, but she's not pitchforking him instantly. Even now people in the forum are all like: Geeze Glossy, you should become friends! But sometimes people don't want to make friends. That's a normal thing in life. Not to mention it would be complete out of character for her to suddenly accept his help.

If we're not forcing the Devil to become buddies with the angels, we shouldn't be forcing Glossy to be friends with Milton.
_________________
No one is every truly alone with pizza.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10953
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, she doesn't know Milton, that we know of. She knows he works for Devil Corp. and makes the fembots, but there's no evidence she knows anything about him. How people are going from "refusing help from someone who does something that personally offends her" to "she should broaden her horizons" takes some mental calisthenics I have yet to master. No one has any obligation to like anyone else, especially someone who does things you find awful. Not liking a person doesn't make you a bad person, and not wanting help (from anyone) doesn't either. Stubborn, sure.

That just seems like common sense to me.
_________________
"Worse comes to worst, my people come first, but my tribe lives on every country on earth. Iíll do anything to protect them from hurt, the human race is what I serve." - Baba Brinkman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 1212
Location: Hedonism

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was totally going to bring up von Braun earlier, but I didn't have the time for making a coherent post.

I was going to bring for more of the, "Scientist without morals" sort of deal. The kind that don't care who signs the funding checks, as long as they can continue on with research. It's not really being actively "evil"... just apathetic. Whether or not apathy is grounds for innocence or at least forgiveness is something that has been debated for a longass time.

Perhaps if someone could entice Milton with a new laboratory and stuff to play with... Get him working on something more productive. Like rocket cars. Or a laptop with a battery life longer than 5 minutes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MerchManDan



Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 2065
Location: Somewhere else.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SA_Penguin wrote:
I would hope someone pushing the whole "porn is degrading" line, would be more careful not to mix who people are, with what they do for a living.

Except Milton doesn't merely manufacture sexbots, spy-drones, etc. "for a living." That IS who he is. He IS a frikkin' DevilTech engineer.
_________________
mouse wrote:
almost a shame to waste dennis' talent on him.
except it's always a pleasure to see a good dennis insult.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
wobster109



Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 177

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol wrote:
As cliche as it sounds, "no means no." Milton didn't accept it. Why is Glossy being criticized for that?


Ok now I have to say something.

No means no in the context of sex. It doesn't mean no across the board, indiscriminately.

Here is an excerpt from Outliers (Malcolm Gladwell):
Quote:
An exchange between an employee (Mr. Kim) and his boss, a division chief (kwachang).
KWACHANG: Itís cold and Iím kind of hungry. [MEANING: Why donít you buy a drink or something to eat?]
MR. KIM: How about having a glass of liquor? [MEANING: I will buy liquor for you.]
KWACHANG: Itís okay. Donít bother. [MEANING: I will accept your offer if you repeat it.]
MR. KIM: You must be hungry. How about going out? [MEANING: I insist upon treating you.]
KWACHANG: Shall I do so? [MEANING: I accept.]


In a similar attitude, I asked a friend if he needed a ride home. His car had broken down. It was raining, and he was stuck at a church, and he'd promised to visit his girlfriend. "No, I'm fine", he said. Do you think he really meant that?

It turned out what he meant was "I don't want to inconvenience you with my problems." It's what people often mean, and (I think) a reasonable interpretation of "no thanks".

I don't think Glossie is terrible for saying "no thanks". But I won't condemn Milton for offering a second time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6182
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how is that any different than disregarding "no means no" in the context of sex? either way you're disregarding what they actually said, and assuming that you know better.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cause sometimes you do know better than them, like the alcoholic or drug addict where an intervention is held. And sometimes, people could be the strongest frigging individual in the world, and would decline help because they feel it would inconvenience you. If glossy would have just said, "No, thanks for the offer though." a second time and he pushed the issue, I would understand, but it was basically just, one no thanks, then a blow up.

And don't bring up no means no in a sexual way, there is nothing here that is sexual at all, besides the fem-bots that Milton makes.

Man you people could not live in Japan, their whole society is based on humbleness and not accepting things the first time even if they do want to do something.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6182
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that is also a bad analogy and you should also feel bad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't care if it is a bad analogy, its an analogy that happens in real life all the time. if you offered someone help and they said no, would you always 100% accept it and leave without offering a second time?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6182
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

addiction interventions are not what we're talking about here, so your analogy is still bad and you should still feel bad. absolute generalizations built into stupid questions like "if you offered someone help and they said no, would you always 100% accept it and leave without offering a second time?" are also bad and you should also feel bad.

christ almighty. if someone really wanted your help when you offer it, they'd say so. if they don't say so, well, that's their fault. assuming that you know better and you can harangue them into admitting their true feelings or whatever just makes you a patronizing dick--and, in other contexts, part of the problem.

and it suggests that your "offer of help" is not really about helping the other person.


Last edited by ShadowCell on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10953
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
Man you people could not live in Japan, their whole society is based on humbleness and not accepting things the first time even if they do want to do something.

You know many of us are native to the culture of which Sinfest is a parody, though, right? 'Cause that's probably more relevant to dissecting this strip ad nauseum than what would happen in a different culture with different mores.

Unless you assume Tat is more Japanese than American, in which case I'd need support for that argument.

Quote:
I don't care if it is a bad analogy, its an analogy that happens in real life all the time. if you offered someone help and they said no, would you always 100% accept it and leave without offering a second time?

No, I push the envelope with friends all the time... the catch being that with friends I know them well enough to understand the subtext of their protestations. A total stranger would be a different story, and require contextual information, because yeah... generally I'd ask once and then leave them alone. Under certain circumstances (potential danger, for instance) I'd ask twice because the risk of appearing rude is outweighed by some other risk (in this case, danger).
_________________
"Worse comes to worst, my people come first, but my tribe lives on every country on earth. Iíll do anything to protect them from hurt, the human race is what I serve." - Baba Brinkman


Last edited by Dogen on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait, you really think that offering help to someone a second time is just a way to get one up over someone? To show your superior, not just really wanting to help?

From what I'm getting you expect everyone to speak truthfully about their feelings 100% all the time, and most people don't do that.


Last edited by Rothide on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group