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Religion, Atheism, What-Have-You
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Yrvani



Joined: 01 Apr 2013
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasairfiona wrote:

I agree with you. However, I stated the way it is, not the way it should be. Take it up with the committees. You can start with the Pope. Razz


Best cure for it is secularism. Old state church here in Sweden loves saying how you can be christian without belief and rather embrace the doubtful as a way of wooing members for contemplation and charity work. Then again, we also have a lesbian bishop in Stockholm in a longterm relationship, so it's not like it's stance is fully accepted everywhere or by everyone. Saying that it's stance means they can't be christians or call their agnostic followers christians is not helpful though.

That said I'm sad we don't have a state church any longer. Wide secular state church/state mosque/state x > minichurches wooing people with fanaticism and purity contests.
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Lasairfiona



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evidence for my position: when proselytizing, a missionary doesn't say "I'm a Lutheran, would you like to hear about Jesus." Instead they say "I'm a Christian, would you like to hear about Jesus."
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasairfiona wrote:
Yrvani wrote:
It's a big deal. We don't really get to define it, individuals do. Like with gender, sexuality, stuff in general.

I don't know about other religions but in Christianity, individuals may define their relationship with God but committees define Christianity for the Church.


My hackles go up every time someone conflates religion with gender identity or with sexuality. There is scientific proof of why gender and sexuality exist, particularly while someone's religion is entirely cultural. Barring coercion, you can choose whatever religion suits your fancy, while gender identity and sexuality are not chosen.

We should respect everyone's choices, but let's not call them the same thing.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this what you mean:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalamus#Human_sexual_orientation_and_the_hypothalamus

Quote:
Human sexual orientation and the hypothalamus
According to D. F. Swaab, writing in a July 2008 paper, "Neurobiological research related to sexual orientation in humans is only just gathering momentum, but the evidence already shows that humans have a vast array of brain differences, not only in relation to gender, but also in relation to sexual orientation."[20]

Swaab first reported on the relationship between sexual orientation in males and the hypothalamus's "clock", the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN). In 1990, Swaab and Hofman[21] reported that the suprachiasmatic nucleus in homosexual men was significantly larger than in heterosexual men. Then in 1995, Swaab et al.[22] linked brain development to sexual orientation by treating male rats both pre- and postnatally with ATD, an aromatase blocker in the brain. This produced an enlarged SCN and bisexual behavior in the adult male rats. In 1991, LeVay showed that part of the sexually dimorphic nucleus (SDN) known as the 3rd interstitial nucleus of the anterior hypothalamus (INAH 3), is nearly twice as large in heterosexual men than in homosexual men and heterosexual women, in terms of volume.

In 2004 and 2006, two studies by Berglund, Lindström, and Savic[23][24] used Positron Emission Tomography (PET) to observe how the hypothalamus responds to smelling common odors, the scent of testosterone found in male sweat, and the scent of estrogen found in female urine. These studies showed that the hypothalamus of heterosexual men and homosexual women both respond to estrogen. Also, the hypothalamus of homosexual men and heterosexual women both respond to testosterone. The hypothalamus of all four groups did not respond to the common odors, which produced a normal olfactory response in the brain.

Other influences upon hypothalamic development
Sex steroids are not the only important influences upon hypothalamic development; in particular, pre-pubertal stress in early life (of rats) determines the capacity of the adult hypothalamus to respond to an acute stressor.[25] Unlike gonadal steroid receptors, glucocorticoid receptors are very widespread throughout the brain; in the paraventricular nucleus, they mediate negative feedback control of CRF synthesis and secretion, but elsewhere their role is not well understood.

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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't have any specific research in mind, as what I've read has been fragmentary. But that looks good, thanks!
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Yrvani



Joined: 01 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:


My hackles go up every time someone conflates religion with gender identity or with sexuality. There is scientific proof of why gender and sexuality exist, particularly while someone's religion is entirely cultural. Barring coercion, you can choose whatever religion suits your fancy, while gender identity and sexuality are not chosen.

We should respect everyone's choices, but let's not call them the same thing.


Understandable, this would be a good place to tout this wonderful blog: http://www.beatricebiologist.com/2012/02/biology-doesnt-support-gay-marriage.html

However there is a grey scale here. Judaism and it's heritage deal aside, many religious people wouldn't consider it a choice.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like that link!

And I understand it isn't a choice for everyone, particularly when you'll be shunned by family and community (Or even killed). But it is different and I want that noted.
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Lasairfiona



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worst case of link path name =/= article name and intent ever.
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Michael



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes automated perma-link making isn't the best Smile
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I wasn't sure if it was the result of ironic sarcasm or what.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17057
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arkhron wrote:
Darqcyde, you are a fine piece of agnostic ^^

Stripeypants wrote:
Sounds like fun. Or something. I used to think it would be fun to get a iob like that, do it for awhile and then announce, "Haha, I am an atheist and I have not burst into flame coming in here!" And then leave with a grand exit.

Good luck getting another job!


And I am tempted to do that in my work, but my dad taugh me to leave from places like a gentleman, so...


good advice. you never know when you might need the reference.
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Arkhron



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yrvani wrote:

Best cure for it is secularism. Old state church here in Sweden loves saying how you can be christian without belief and rather embrace the doubtful as a way of wooing members for contemplation and charity work. Then again, we also have a lesbian bishop in Stockholm in a longterm relationship, so it's not like it's stance is fully accepted everywhere or by everyone. Saying that it's stance means they can't be christians or call their agnostic followers christians is not helpful though.


OMFG. I love sweden... That is the kind of things we point in the south of europe and cry "Why we can't have anything like this? Crying or Very sad"
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kame



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has it been stated yet that the term Christian is nebulous to the point of being meaningless?
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Yrvani



Joined: 01 Apr 2013
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arkhron wrote:

OMFG. I love sweden... That is the kind of things we point in the south of europe and cry "Why we can't have anything like this? Crying or Very sad"


She is awesome in many ways. This time around we elected in our populist/racist/idiot party for the first time, and in her first speech to welcome government in the big cathedralthingy she focused so much on saying how everyone is of equal worth and we should be respectful and stuff that all of the members of that party took their silly little national-dress hats and stood up and left in a huff.

kame wrote:
nebulous


Nebulous.. I need to use this word more.
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