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16 Feb 2013 Fembot 3: Back to Perfection
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hadn't thought of the male voice being another machine, but if it was I don't know why it would have shown mercy, especially when it did. Then, he specifically tells her not to cause trouble for him. Add onto that the "my god" at the end, and I can't convince myself it is another construct at all. I think it was a person.

The video makes me uncomfortable because this guy, this voice we never see, appears to value his job so much that he only bothers to look at the two easiest options.
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Leohan



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alternative solution! Personally requesting to buy the model with said serial for up to twice the price for "sentimental reasons."
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bitflipper



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, and the credits list him as "The Operator," plus there's the sound of keys clicking in the background as he goes through his checklist--more evidence for him being human instead of the assembly machine itself. It was the motion of the arm-mounted camera tracking on Kara as she walks and as she heads to the packaging line, and the fact that Kara seems to look back towards the camera as she says "Thank you," that inspired the idea the operator might be the assembly machine.

He values his job, and he looks for the easiest ways out. But, he also responds to another sapient's fear. Does that really make him so bad a person? To me, it makes him seem all the more human, whether he's biological or electronic.
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bitflipper



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
Alternative solution! Personally requesting to buy the model with said serial for up to twice the price for "sentimental reasons."

See? Now I have no doubt that Leohan possesses true intelligence. That's pretty frikkin' creative!
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Leohan



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitflipper wrote:
Leohan wrote:
Alternative solution! Personally requesting to buy the model with said serial for up to twice the price for "sentimental reasons."

See? Now I have no doubt that Leohan possesses true intelligence. That's pretty frikkin' creative!


Thank you for the compliment. And yeah, I guess that this is the kind of stuff that you have to put a bit of thought into. While I wouldn't demonize the operator for his perfectly understandable choice, I'd say that this is a moral dilemma that he put very little thought into.
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Sojobo



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zot the Wise wrote:
We simply have to agree to disagree.
...
I respectfully withdraw from this debate and concede to your right to believe whatever you wish, although I completely disagree with you.

It is always slightly weird to me when people do this at the end of a lengthy debatey post. *shrugs*

There are two main things wrong with your posts, and you repeat them each several times.

1st: You keep talking about my assumptions and interpretation and that I have no hard evidence, and then "refute" me with your assumptions and interpretation and no hard evidence. Your description that Slick was "just messing with the remote to coax a response out of what was previously a robot" assumes more, and is based on much wilder interpretation, than my "he tried to control her with the remote". The way I use my description involves examining subtext, but the description itself is a plain and straightforward recounting of the event.Your description is the one that imagines motivations for Slick. You reach much farther than I do.

This led to you overlooking that much of my last post was drawing conclusions from your understanding of the characters. Even when I granted your choice of motivations for Slick going into the reality zone, his use of the remote was still creepy.

Your argument now, that Slick brought the fembot into the reality zone so it would change her, but then didn't notice when the reality zone immediately changed her, is a little kooky to me. It presupposes some sort of delay in the operation of the reality zone, a very forced assumption with little justification. Also, he is actually looking at her in the comic's panel when he tries to use the remote. The change is not subtle. He would absolutely notice. Everyone else always does when they are in the reality zone. You are the one arguing assumptions and unnatural interpretations - I constantly refer back to the comic.

2nd: You have consistently exaggerated my disappointment with Slick. I say he has acted in a very creepy manner, and it says something creepy about his understanding of relationship. There are millions of "nice guys" like this. They read books about how to pick up women and complain of getting friendzoned. They show up here at Sinfest pretty regularly to complain about the comic getting too feminist. I'm sure a good many of these people "have kindness in their hearts". But their understanding of relationships is creepy.

According to you, I consider Slick malicious. This is not so. According to you, I consider Slick villainous. This is not so. According to you, I consider Slick pro-slavery. This is not so. Slick is creepy, not evil. I pity him, but I don't hate him.
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Sojobo



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
S'all good. It just reminds me of those terrible 'either or' questions. Like "either kill a puppy with your bare hands or two thousand people die".

After the couple of seconds it took the horror to fade when they stopped disassembling her, I became completely convinced that every single bot had become sentient in the same way, and the Operator's responses were actually all scripted - that making the bot fear for her life if she ever let anyone know she was aware was just S.O.P.
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Leohan



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sojobo: All that Slick was attempting was to capture the illusion of a relationship, really. What Curly triggered (in an ultimately right but certainly uncalled for manner) was to make Slick self conscious about his choices. After that, having that fake relationship didn't quite make it and he needed something real, hence the reality zone.

As I stated several times, the RZ part of the strip is a metaphor that explains Slick's misguided approach. For that reason, while both the robot and the control remain there, what changes is the relationship between the characters. Slick doesn't notice that she has turned human. He was just made to desire the concept of a real relationship without fully understanding what is it that made it so fake.

After that, it just happened too fast. Truth is that if it was a woman he was dealing with, the concept of remotely controlling her wouldn't have even crossed his head. He had a ruleset that he had become familiar with and when the rules changed he didn't quite adapt. Most of all, Slick didn't go to the reality zone to show Curly that it was real. He went there because he needed it to be real.

And while it does show arguably creepy concepts, at times, I believe that Slick's approach was quite innocent. Perhaps too innocent to understand the implications.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sojobo wrote:
Samsally wrote:
S'all good. It just reminds me of those terrible 'either or' questions. Like "either kill a puppy with your bare hands or two thousand people die".

After the couple of seconds it took the horror to fade when they stopped disassembling her, I became completely convinced that every single bot had become sentient in the same way, and the Operator's responses were actually all scripted - that making the bot fear for her life if she ever let anyone know she was aware was just S.O.P.

Oh my god, this is the most sinister interpretation yet. Well done.

(I'm going with Leohan's version though, for my personal headcanon. I like sleeping at night.)
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Sojobo



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
After that, having that fake relationship didn't quite make it and he needed

something real, hence the reality zone.

The reality zone doesn't make imaginary things real. It makes imaginary things stop working, or cease to be. It will not make his fake relationship real. It will reveal whether his relationship is real or fake.

Leohan wrote:
He was just made to desire the concept of a real relationship without fully understanding what is it that made it so fake.

Verynearlyalmost. He wants a real relationship, and doesn't understand why Curly called his relationship fake . . . because he doesn't understand what makes relationships real or fake.

Leohan wrote:
After that, it just happened too fast. Truth is that if it was a woman he was dealing with, the concept of remotely controlling her wouldn't have even crossed his head. He had a ruleset that he had become familiar with and when the rules changed he didn't quite adapt.

You, like Zot, are answering me as though I am saying Slick reasoned out that she was conscious and tried to enslave her anyway. I'm not saying that. It can be an instinctive reaction and still be creepy. He watched her turn into a person, then tried to set her back on girlfriend mode (or something similar). That's creepy.
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bitflipper



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sojobo wrote:
After the couple of seconds it took the horror to fade when they stopped disassembling her, I became completely convinced that every single bot had become sentient in the same way, and the Operator's responses were actually all scripted - that making the bot fear for her life if she ever let anyone know she was aware was just S.O.P.

...? Forgive my saying so, but that's a pretty creepy view of engineers, Sojo. I mean, yeah, we can be pretty out-of-touch at times, and we've got all the social graces of a coelocanth flopping around on dry land and gasping its last, but we do know the difference between destruction-testing, vandalism, and sadism!

If anything, we'd probably quickly drop power from Kara's processing core and then very carefully--almost lovingly--take her apart bit by bit and run diagnostics on every component to see if we can figure out whence the spark of intell...

...I'm not helping my case, here, any, am I?

:flop: :flop: :gasp!:
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Leohan



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sojobo wrote:
Leohan wrote:
After that, having that fake relationship didn't quite make it and he needed something real, hence the reality zone.

The reality zone doesn't make imaginary things real. It makes imaginary things stop working, or cease to be. It will not make his fake relationship real. It will reveal whether his relationship is real or fake.


I know. That's why the 'real' version of their relationship is nonexistant. He wanted to know how it was but then it wasn't there. The reality zone doesn't only reject what's fake. It also turns imaginary things into real counterparts.

Sojobo wrote:
Leohan wrote:
He was just made to desire the concept of a real relationship without fully understanding what is it that made it so fake.

Verynearlyalmost. He wants a real relationship, and doesn't understand why Curly called his relationship fake . . . because he doesn't understand what makes relationships real or fake.


If it was just him not understanding why she said that there would be no need to get the RZ involved. he'd just say that feminists are weird and keep enjoying himself.

Sojobo wrote:
Leohan wrote:
After that, it just happened too fast. Truth is that if it was a woman he was dealing with, the concept of remotely controlling her wouldn't have even crossed his head. He had a ruleset that he had become familiar with and when the rules changed he didn't quite adapt.

You, like Zot, are answering me as though I am saying Slick reasoned out that she was conscious and tried to enslave her anyway. I'm not saying that. It can be an instinctive reaction and still be creepy. He watched her turn into a person, then tried to set her back on girlfriend mode (or something similar). That's creepy.


Sorry for the confusion. But even so, I wouldn't call that an instinctive reaction. It's more like a test. "Let's see if this relationship is compatible with reality."

It is still creepy, mind you. But it's mostly plain innocent and ignorant.
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