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2013-02-20: Bring Back Old 'Nique
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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 1163
Location: Behind my Cintiq

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MerchManDan wrote:
Hey, it's important to release one's self-righteous disgust regularly. Keeping that stuff inside will kill you.
And thus why we have so many shitty people on the internet trashing others that disagree with them.

They have too much disgusting stuff in them. Very Happy


Also, I meant to finish my reply to Larsen earlier, but got distracted. I realize it's a shame I did and posted now, because it was particularly awesome how everyone immediately ignored him, thus acknowledging his opinion's worth. =P
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KDX



Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 321

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meh, 2 cents, there's a point where the comic stopped making legitimate points about the behavior of men and just crossed that line into misandry.

"Now it's Men are always wrong, all of the time, for every reason, aren't allow to want anything, and have to give everything into order to be "ok.""

Yeah I come back to read the comic, but not for this arc, and not to complain about this arc, this post not withstanding, I come to read to see if we finally get away from this fucking arc, or, low and behold get to a place where, god and feminists forbid, a man actually wanting something to be a certain way isn't ALWAYS bad.

If it doesn't soon, then I may stop reading, and I think a good deal of people feel the same way. Tell a story Tat, don't just browbeat one social/gender group. It gets old. Fast.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6084
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the comic has not actually said any of that.

you did.
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StateOfBedlam



Joined: 07 Feb 2013
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diagram12345 wrote:
Yes, it's an argument of semantics. If you define as altruism as helping someone because you take pleasure in helping someone, then sure, people are altruistic.

What I'm trying to say is that people interact with each other because they meet each other's needs in some way. And now that Monique and Slick no longer meet each other's needs, they will no longer benefit from interacting, and thus will stop unless they start to mutually benefit from interacting again.


Thanks (although you were never suggesting that altruism may not exist)

KDX wrote:
"Now it's Men are always wrong, all of the time, for every reason, aren't allow to want anything, and have to give everything into order to be "ok.""


I don't see any of that. Anywhere.
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bitflipper



Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Posts: 728
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KDX wrote:
Meh, 2 cents, there's a point where the comic stopped making legitimate points about the behavior of men and just crossed that line into misandry.

"Now it's Men are always wrong, all of the time, for every reason, aren't allow to want anything, and have to give everything into order to be "ok.""

Yeah I come back to read the comic, but not for this arc, and not to complain about this arc, this post not withstanding, I come to read to see if we finally get away from this fucking arc, or, low and behold get to a place where, god and feminists forbid, a man actually wanting something to be a certain way isn't ALWAYS bad.

If it doesn't soon, then I may stop reading, and I think a good deal of people feel the same way. Tell a story Tat, don't just browbeat one social/gender group. It gets old. Fast.


ShadowCell wrote:
the comic has not actually said any of that.

you did.


Which would make KDX wrong. Hmm... By any chance, KDX, are you a man?

I find it amusing how often in the crowd I run with we'll make the joke "I'm sorry; it's my fault. I'm a man." or "Nope, dude you're automatically wrong; she's a woman, remember?" One time, the joshing happened in front of a pair of co-workers' boss, and the lady of the pair got dressed down for an hour about sexual harassment in the workplace. She was pissed as hell when the crowd got together that evening for drinks and games. It took a bit, but we actually cheered her up, primarily using the same ol' stale gender-twist jokes. Then someone said to her, "Your boss forgot Rule #1: you're the woman, therefore, he's wrong." Her response, "My boss is a woman," got delivered appropriately deadpan into the sudden silence that had blossomed, but then was followed by a suppressed *snerk* that got everyone laughing hysterically. This story has no moral nor purpose; I just find it fun to remember and to relate.
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
Too long for quoting comfort. Read at page 5, third post


You think about everything you do. I dunno what the official stance of psychological egoism is (I learned the term investigating for this discussion), but I'm including subconscious thinking, as explained earlier. What you subconsciously want is still an ambition.

Very good job bringing up definitions of altruism and egoism! I should have done that myself for the sake of argument. I think I like these two respectively:

"1. the principle or practice of unselfish concern for or devotion to the welfare of others ( opposed to egoism ). " and "3. Ethics. the view that morality ultimately rests on self-interest."

mouse wrote:
personally, i think we should go with the biological definition - anything that you do that you don't expect to get laid for is altruistic.


Let's not bring Freudian psychology to the table and we'll all be happier, shall we?

EDIT: Also

ktern wrote:
Leohan wrote:
Not exactly. He's indeed thinking about helping those people, but before he does that there are a lot of mechanisms that activate, including the risk/benefit one. What's the motivation? It can be an expected reward, a moral justification for his life choices or even a search for heaven. None of them truly altruistic.


if this is accurate then i expect far more religious people to perform this sort of heroic action, because they have an additional reward system attached


Dunno. This kinda reads as a counterargument. Like if you were saying "If this was true then the quotient of religious heroes would be higher than the atheist heroes one." This is, of course, a claim that you are making (or otherwise a possible flaw that you are proposing my thinking has) without any sort of evidence. Bring the evidence and I may acknowledge your post as a point I should defend. In the meantime this is not a flaw in my reasoning but a wild assumption you are having. I have no need to expand on it.
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ktern



Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, if acts that appear altruistic are done because some kind of reward is expected, you don't think that the incentive of a better afterlife would drive more religious people to said acts than the nonreligious?

do more rewards = more "altruistic" actions? if they're motivated by rewards this ought to be the case
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ktern wrote:
well, if acts that appear altruistic are done because some kind of reward is expected, you don't think that the incentive of a better afterlife would drive more religious people to said acts than the nonreligious?

do more rewards = more "altruistic" actions? if they're motivated by rewards this ought to be the case


Yup. That's probably the case. ^^
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ktern



Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay then that's all i was saying
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
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Location: Hedonism

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, religion adds a whole bunch of rules about who you are supposed to help and when. Which is kind of counter to the whole altruism thing.
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Arkhron



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 266

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know, Bill Gates is atheist and is giving away >90% of his fortune to altruistic causes (vaccines, mostly). This would be a proof of...

Oh shit, he is installing Brain Windows w/o consent!
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Dennis J. Squidbunny



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3751
Location: AUSTRALIA YOU FAKIR

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitflipper wrote:
I find it amusing how often in the crowd I run with we'll make the joke "I'm sorry; it's my fault. I'm a man." or "Nope, dude you're automatically wrong; she's a woman, remember?" One time, the joshing happened in front of a pair of co-workers' boss, and the lady of the pair got dressed down for an hour about sexual harassment in the workplace. She was pissed as hell when the crowd got together that evening for drinks and games. It took a bit, but we actually cheered her up, primarily using the same ol' stale gender-twist jokes. Then someone said to her, "Your boss forgot Rule #1: you're the woman, therefore, he's wrong." Her response, "My boss is a woman," got delivered appropriately deadpan into the sudden silence that had blossomed, but then was followed by a suppressed *snerk* that got everyone laughing hysterically. This story has no moral nor purpose; I just find it fun to remember and to relate.


there is no sinnie for forum embarrassing dad
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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:
Of course, religion adds a whole bunch of rules about who you are supposed to help and when. Which is kind of counter to the whole altruism thing.

But the rules are almost always about people you should help (not sure about any rules of when honestly), not people you should not, except in a few cases, so for the point of altruism where we do still believe personal motivation does not dis-avow altruism, having specific examples of people they SHOULD help doesn't hurt and should motivate them further.

At least it should be if they were doing it right. Wink Christianity (as opposed to simply worshipers of "God") more-so than others even, since "supposedly" they're supposed to be listening to his message over even previously established messages, which was a "help everyone, judge no-one" doctrine. Yeaaah, there's a lot of people screwing that up. Fucking it up hard. core. If Christianity turns out to be true, Jesus will be waiting for people in heaven with his palm on his face.

Still you have a point that overall religion doesn't add anything to altruism or make anyone altruistic on its own. It may be an additional factor, but as we've been shown a-freaking-LOT, religion does not cause anyone to BE altruistic. The nature has to be there on its own.

Well maybe in cases of people removed from the world like monks up in the mountains...


StateOfBedlam wrote:

KDX wrote:
"Now it's Men are always wrong, all of the time, for every reason, aren't allow to want anything, and have to give everything into order to be "ok.""


I don't see any of that. Anywhere.

ShadowCell wrote:
the comic has not actually said any of that.

you did.

Ditto. WTF
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On another note, I wonder if Minique "gets" that Slick and Devil Slick are two separate entities, or if she's wondering "What happened to his horns and tail?"

The two Slicks don't have the same set of priorities.
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lol



Joined: 16 Nov 2012
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KDX wrote:
Meh, 2 cents, there's a point where the comic stopped making legitimate points about the behavior of men and just crossed that line into misandry.

"Now it's Men are always wrong, all of the time, for every reason, aren't allow to want anything, and have to give everything into order to be "ok.""

Dude, what the hell are you even talking about? Where did the comic say ANY of that?
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