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Good on the popinator....
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E-boy



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:01 pm    Post subject: Good on the popinator.... Reply with quote

I say this because dear old Pope apologized more for the reaction to his speech than his actual words. Smile

Yay, the pope has a spine. As for the fact it offended some folks? Well, so be it. That isn't a justification for killing, violence, or anything of the sort. It's time the various religions of the world took responsibility for preserving their own reputations. If someone is going to use your belief system as a shield with which to cover their ignoble deeds, then perhaps it's time that members more representative of the tenets they hold dear speak out. Just my two cents.

If this offends you I'm willing to put up with the risk you might come and bomb my house. Before I die though stand by for me to tell you with my dying breath "Dude, you're way too fucking sensitive!"
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E-boy



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It occurs to me that I may have been less than diplomatic in posting the above.

HOWEVER, it's still true. No amount of political correctness makes placating monsters okay. Rest assured they are MONSTERS. Muslims as a whole, are not. Individuals who use it to force their views on others, or justify violence are. This is self evident and quite simple truth. Tiptoeing around it in the name of diplomacy and tact gives truth to the saying that "all that is necessary for evil to triumph in the world, is for good people to do nothing".
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Snorri



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evil already triumphed.
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snorri wrote:
Evil already triumphed.

Because Good is dumb?
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kame



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

E-Boy, you'll live longer than I will. I believe I've said that anyone that takes offence to the Pope's speech is fundamentally retarded.
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Last edited by kame on Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kilgore



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're fundamentally something, at any rate.
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Flion



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snorri wrote:
Evil already triumphed.


Then where's my reward? Evil or Very Mad
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mouse



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, his initial response was more along the lines of "i'm sorry people were offended by what i said" rather than "i'm sorry i said something offensive". i guess he's moving now towards acknowledging that he said something offensive.

while muslim fundamentalists may advocate violence, mainstream muslims don't - any more than all christians advocate violence just because some christian fundamentalists believe in blowing up abortion clinics and murdering the doctors. the 14th century guy the pope was quoting condemned the entire religion as evil. now, if the pope wants to get some sort of a dialogue going with the muslim world, saying the only new ideas the founder of the religion had were totally evil is maybe not the best way to start - yes?
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kame



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mouse, what you said doesn't change the fact that a) the pope properly bulwarked his quotation before saying it, b) the quotation was part of a larger quote that led to the thesis of his speech, which was an open and frank religious debate, and c) so long as every mention, innocuous or otherwise, to muhammed causes a bunch of nutters to fly off the handle, an open dialogue is impossible.

religion - logic = religious fundamentalism
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jsimpleton



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the pope's words were taken out of context. muslims got angry because they didn't get the whole story, now they're all fanatical. pope apoligized for offending people because he doesn't want discourse. Pope seems like an alright guy to me, why's everyone so angry?
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rm



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eh, who wants discourse?
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thewaitersitsondown



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I speak for everyone when I say:
WTF POPE
WTF PEOPLE
WTF PEOPLEOPE
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Snorri



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but with exclamation marks.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kame wrote:
Mouse, what you said doesn't change the fact that a) the pope properly bulwarked his quotation before saying it, b) the quotation was part of a larger quote that led to the thesis of his speech, which was an open and frank religious debate, and c) so long as every mention, innocuous or otherwise, to muhammed causes a bunch of nutters to fly off the handle, an open dialogue is impossible.

religion - logic = religious fundamentalism


the pope should be sufficiently media-savvy to realize that something like that _would_ be taken out of context, and that people get their news in sound-bites, not in whole theses.

he chose a bad way to go about things, and he should have known better.
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Lasairfiona



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
the pope should be sufficiently media-savvy to realize that something like that _would_ be taken out of context...

Ha! Let's not blame the media for being sensationalists. No, of course not. The media should be able to take things out of context and scream about them. They do all the time anyway and that makes it okay.

I think the pope could have made his point without that quote. He is certainly in the wrong in my opinion.

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