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Who decides?
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
... that's exactly what I just said.

Am I invisible?


When I hit reply Sam's was the last post. I take a lonnnng time to write posts sometimes. I get distracted and end up going elsewhere for a while.

My bad, you are certainly visible, Mr. Supermonkey.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut, at 4:07pm, wrote:
I would think, considering that PoA can give the holder the responsibility of choosing whether or not to remove someone from life support (a personal experience), that they essentially have as much control over the situation as the patient themselves would.


Dogen, two and a half hours earlier, wrote:
Once you have POA you can make decisions as though you were the patient - that is, you can make any decision whatever within the scope of the POA. A medical POA couldn't move someone else's money around, for instance.


Razz
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fritterdonut



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well fuck.

I don't even have an excuse for that one.

Quite obviously I need to give someone PoA before I become any more idle-minded.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:

Edit: PoA is a terrible thing to have, in my opinion. I hope I never have to receive it from my parents.


unfortunately, people very often don't die neat sudden deaths. and in cases where they don't, it's better to have someone who cares about them and knows what they would really want make the decisions, rather than having it default to something horrible, like being infinitely extended on machines because no one has the power to say 'turn them off".

it's a hard thing to have, but it is given to you by love.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Technically, unless they have a POA, no one has the right to make medical decisions for you.


Well, like, what do you mean when you say nobody has the right to make medical decisions for a person ó does this extend to people who are incapacitated or have no agency due to a psychological state or incapacity?
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you, a person in possession of their faculties, were to become incapacitated then your family would have no default legal right to make decisions on your treatment in the absence of a POA. Even your spouse. A physician will often listen to their wishes, but is not required to. If a decision is necessary and no POA exists, a petition can be made to appoint one until you regain your faculties. But absent such a petition your care is essentially in the hands of your doctor and however much they want to listen to your family.

In practice, a spouse is treated as a POA for most things, but there's no statutory support for this, it's just how it's done.

The nature of the incapacitation matters only in regard to whether the court will appoint someone a temporary POA (such as after an accident, or until a child comes of age) or assign them permanently. Even if you're assigned a permanent POA by a court, though, if you regain your faculties you can withdraw them.
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fritterdonut



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
fritterdonut wrote:

Edit: PoA is a terrible thing to have, in my opinion. I hope I never have to receive it from my parents.


unfortunately, people very often don't die neat sudden deaths. and in cases where they don't, it's better to have someone who cares about them and knows what they would really want make the decisions, rather than having it default to something horrible, like being infinitely extended on machines because no one has the power to say 'turn them off".

it's a hard thing to have, but it is given to you by love.


Well, there's always a living will.

On that note, I should probably write mine some time.
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Vox Raucus



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:
In a situation in which the victim was mentally incapacitated permanently, as in mental illness, wouldn't it be likely they would have a spouse/brother/sister/parent/caretaker/friend etc that had power of attorney for them?

Would power of attorney allow someone else to make their medical decisions, given that they are unable to safely or sanely make their own choice?

Edit: Actually, can someone who is provably unable to make decisions even give power of attorney to someone? I think that would probably fall under some dubious legalities.

In BC, it's a little more complicated, as there are several levels and types of decision making powers, as well as several titles that essentially do the same thing. In BC law, everyone is presumed competent to make all decisions - this includes people with mental illness, developmental disabilities, the elderly, etc. This includes the ability to grant decisions making powers to others. BC has four types of decision making agreements - power of attorney, advanced health care directive (like a DNR order), a Representation Agreement (which was intended to replace POA entirely, only the lawmakers screwed up the legislation), and Committee of person/finance. The first three establish decision making power in the event of incapacity, however Committee is a permanent legal endorsement of incapacity involving assessment from several medical professionals and has to go through the court systems.

If an individual is committed under the Mental Health Act (they wind up in Acute Psychiatry) they are temporarily stripped of their legal decision making power - the treating psychiatrist is the decision maker regarding all health care decisions, actually pretty much all decisions except for financial.

Again, this is only in BC - there may well be differences between the provinces on this issue.
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Vox Raucus



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:

Well, there's always a living will.

On that note, I should probably write mine some time.

Living wills have no legal power in BC, so it does not circumvent the PoA issue.
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fritterdonut



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the clarification, Vox.

Upon looking into it further it appears that living wills aren't legally viable anywhere in Canada.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're not legally binding in the US, either, but that doesn't make them a bad idea. The general recommendation is to have a living will and to assign someone power of attorney for medical decisions that only kicks in if you're mentally incapacitated. The living will takes a lot of pressure off them to figure out what you want, and the POA means no one has to go through a petition process to get assigned once you've gone off the deep end.
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fritterdonut



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
They're not legally binding in the US, either, but that doesn't make them a bad idea. The general recommendation is to have a living will and to assign someone power of attorney for medical decisions that only kicks in if you're mentally incapacitated. The living will takes a lot of pressure off them to figure out what you want, and the POA means no one has to go through a petition process to get assigned once you've gone off the deep end.


Interesting. I thought living wills were valid in the US because I know you can have DNR orders, but apparently DNR orders are separate from living wills and are required to be filled out on a state-by-state basis.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If a man wants children and the women he knows aren't interested in pregnancy, he has the opportunity to adopt. If it must be his biological child, then he can get a surrogate. That might complicate or destroy the relationship, and it might be a huge financial/legal hassle for him - but that is what pregnancy can be for women. What is more, he doesn't have to suffer from adverse health effects in the process.

I think a healthy relationship will allow for discussion of alternatives to abortion, but allowing the father to have say so over the child's birth adds to the very real problem of abusive men forcing women to stay with them by making them pregnant.[/i]
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