welcome to the fest
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

2013-03-03: Male Gaze
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1017

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got several things to say but I don't want to quote everyone.

First off: It's more or less unavoidable to pass judgement on people, especially people that you don't know, for superficial features. You may try to avoid it, you could mostly ignore it when talking to someone, but the judgement WILL happen.

Second: The useage of male gaze by media is pure and simple advertising. "How about female gaze?" you may ask, "Why is it that only females are oversexualized for the sake of marketing?"

Well, simple answer is that it was attempted but it simply does not work. It looks ridiculous or that's how we as a society perceive it. A notable exception of this is the Old Spice Man, but that was plain genius marketing and not a standard practice.

The long answer I don't really know, but it must surely be fascinating.

Third:

Miss Magenta wrote:
cleocatra wrote:
I like this new fat lady Very Happy She looks stylish~


Believe it or not, she's not new.

You never cease to amaze me. How do you remember and then find that?
_________________
Sinfest Juggalo Worshipper
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sunember123



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lime is so cute here. Also, Nana's awesome.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Mikewee777



Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 528
Location: 0_0

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
CONSPIRACY MODE:

Clearly big-D loves fat women.That's why he told her to consume fewer 'carbs' instead of telling her to consume more fiber. Her insecurity ensures that he continues to be paid and she continues to eat. If you are drinking clean water and eating plant foods high in fiber, you have no excuse for your obesity. Read the nutritional information labels on your foods and ask yourself if you really need that much bad-cholesterol in your diet from a single egg and that much candida from everything else. Maybe it's possible that I'm just having trouble stomaching this humble pie. ["Die clean, White Man From Town. Die clean!"-Thinner 1996]
[/img]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10250
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If only all sugar were created equal, which they're not, so that pic is kinda misleading. Also, they should all have the same-sized bag, otherwise it can distort the amount of sugar that's actually being displayed i.e. smaller bags make it seem like more sugar
_________________
...if a single leaf holds the eye, it will be as if the remaining leaves were not there.
http://12ozlb.blogspot.com Now in book form: http://amzn.to/14E6OFy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
Posts: 703

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, this comic sort of*doesn't* bring up something I recall seeing present in the strip (alibiet not discussed):

Isn't the fabulous gay character just as bad as a lot of members of the patriarchy? I'm pretty sure I recall seeing comics where he *was* viewing men as 'hot' (heck.. wasn't that his whole reason for watching football? More butt patting! It was a throwaway joke, I seem to recall, but still.) So, is objectifying bad, or is it only bad when it's Male on female?
_________________
"No, but evil is still being --Is having reason-- Being reasonable! Mousie understands? Is always being reason. Is punishing world for not being... Like in head. Is always reason. World should be different, is reason."
-Ed, from Digger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3271

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. No it isn't classy, nor is it nice

2. But there's that whole inconvenient power dynamic in society that you cannot just disregard. The objects of his "male gaze" are not widely viewed as "just eyecandy" by the society they live in.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cactuar



Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan,

First of all, the male gaze goes beyond advertizing and into movies, the PoV of book characters and the assumed "PoV" of many kinds of perspectives that occur in the social discourse. It colors the ways we find it acceptable to interact with other human beings in general. This is a much broader thing than "sex sells."

Secondly, there have been very few serious attempts at actually catering to the female gaze. Most attempts that there have been, have been contaminated by the male gaze (because of it's problematic ubiquity, which I touched on earlier), causing them to be "what men think women want" instead of "what women want," and thus, unpopular with women. To quote someone, in reference to this post on tumblr.

Moniquill wrote:

...I mean, how many ‘porn for straight women’ magazines have tried to launch and asked a bunch of straight women what they wanted in porn -and gotten answers of ‘smiling dudes’ ‘dudes giving bedroom eyes’ and ‘cock’ - only to then said ‘yeah no, we’re giving you tough,aloof-looking shirtless guys with power muscles and weapons instead (because regardless of what any of you say you want we know that the majority of you want tough looking guys with power muscles and weapons because that’s what masculinity is because sexiness is feminine-coded.

I mean obviously the only reason a man would display in a sexually-inviting way (as opposed to an aggressive way or a disinterested way) is if he’s trying to attract a man! Ergo anything in which a man is display in a sexually inviting or (gasp) submissive way is gay gay gay gay gay and thus the anti-masculine and no woman would ever want it. We know better than you what you like and want and find sexy) and then failed and blamed the failure on the totally legit and well known phenomenon that women just don’t get off on visual stimuli they’d rather read erotica.


Most of the hurdles faced by the outlets that genuinely try to cater to women's tastes have been unrelated to demand, which is high, as in the case of Filament magazine.

Honestly the female gaze "market" as it were is not tiny or non-existent so much as it is actively being underserved (at least in the west) for a variety of reasons.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cactuar



Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:
Actually, this comic sort of*doesn't* bring up something I recall seeing present in the strip (alibiet not discussed):

Isn't the fabulous gay character just as bad as a lot of members of the patriarchy? I'm pretty sure I recall seeing comics where he *was* viewing men as 'hot' (heck.. wasn't that his whole reason for watching football? More butt patting! It was a throwaway joke, I seem to recall, but still.) So, is objectifying bad, or is it only bad when it's Male on female?


Objectifying =/= "thinking someone is sexy"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
Posts: 703

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cactuar wrote:
Felgraf wrote:
Actually, this comic sort of*doesn't* bring up something I recall seeing present in the strip (alibiet not discussed):

Isn't the fabulous gay character just as bad as a lot of members of the patriarchy? I'm pretty sure I recall seeing comics where he *was* viewing men as 'hot' (heck.. wasn't that his whole reason for watching football? More butt patting! It was a throwaway joke, I seem to recall, but still.) So, is objectifying bad, or is it only bad when it's Male on female?


Objectifying =/= "thinking someone is sexy"


But hasn't the comic been making the opposite argument a number of times? Or, at the very least, members of the Sisterhood seem to have been arguing that.

Eh, perhaps I just need more coffee this morning...
_________________
"No, but evil is still being --Is having reason-- Being reasonable! Mousie understands? Is always being reason. Is punishing world for not being... Like in head. Is always reason. World should be different, is reason."
-Ed, from Digger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cactuar



Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:
Cactuar wrote:
Felgraf wrote:
Actually, this comic sort of*doesn't* bring up something I recall seeing present in the strip (alibiet not discussed):

Isn't the fabulous gay character just as bad as a lot of members of the patriarchy? I'm pretty sure I recall seeing comics where he *was* viewing men as 'hot' (heck.. wasn't that his whole reason for watching football? More butt patting! It was a throwaway joke, I seem to recall, but still.) So, is objectifying bad, or is it only bad when it's Male on female?


Objectifying =/= "thinking someone is sexy"


But hasn't the comic been making the opposite argument a number of times? Or, at the very least, members of the Sisterhood seem to have been arguing that.

Eh, perhaps I just need more coffee this morning...

Ah, coffee, I can somewhat relate.

I would disagree with your characterization of how it's portrayed in comic, but alas I can't explain in detail at this time as it's three in the morning and I've used up my daily allotment of thinky power by this point. Also I'm hungry again, and considering making pasta or something, although that fact is completely irrelevant to everything.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mikewee777



Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 528
Location: 0_0

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will bring to the attention to the audience that he puts emphasis on the color blue as sub-human and the color brownish-orange as some sort of pro-human color.
He has given up on originality and is one of them now.
Quote:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OrangeBlueContrast
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlueAndOrangeMorality
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoodColorsEvilColors
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10250
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um, blue-orange morality isn't quite the same as orange blue contrast, in fact, they are quite different concepts.

If D&D gave us the X and Y axises with Good and Evil, Lawful and Chaotic, blue-orange morality implies a morality along the Z axis, Bacon and Necktie, in other words a possibly alien, incongruent morality that doesn't fit within the previous schema:


_________________
...if a single leaf holds the eye, it will be as if the remaining leaves were not there.
http://12ozlb.blogspot.com Now in book form: http://amzn.to/14E6OFy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1017

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cactuar:

The concept of advertising goes beyond the usage of advertises. Selling a product happens all the time. If there's a movie with Liv Tyler in there, her fascinating beauty will be an advertisement of the movie. Thus more people will go see it.

...And on your other point, ok. Let's be fair about this. Somebody tell me what is it that women want, on a physical and then on a mental level, from men. After we got that clear we can start with the examples.
_________________
Sinfest Juggalo Worshipper
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10250
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or why does the cleavage revealed at the Oscars get more attention than the names revealed form the envelopes.
_________________
...if a single leaf holds the eye, it will be as if the remaining leaves were not there.
http://12ozlb.blogspot.com Now in book form: http://amzn.to/14E6OFy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Cactuar



Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
Cactuar:

The concept of advertising goes beyond the usage of advertises. Selling a product happens all the time. If there's a movie with Liv Tyler in there, her fascinating beauty will be an advertisement of the movie. Thus more people will go see it.

...And on your other point, ok. Let's be fair about this. Somebody tell me what is it that women want, on a physical and then on a mental level, from men. After we got that clear we can start with the examples.


I will give you a longer answer on the first point in the morning..or slightly later in the morning, but on the second point, the quote from moniquill already contained a partial list of the kinds of things women want in things which are designed to appeal to them sexually.

If you have problems or questions with those, then by all means I will try to address them, but don't act like they haven't been offered, or that I need to provide an exhaustively comprehensive diagram of what All Women Want to support my point when no one expects the same when it comes to supporting rather blanket assertions about what it is men want. That's the opposite of being 'fair' about this.

Women aren't inscrutable. The perspective of the female gaze may be somewhat obscure to men, and it is without a doubt more obscure than it otherwise needs to be because, again, of the ubiquity of the male-gaze-as-default-perspective, but let's not act like it's some kind of deep mystery that has yet to be unearthed by science.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 3 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group