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Ought Comedians Tell Rape jokes?
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There are some lines Comedians ought not cross.
Of course.
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No, nothing is sacred.
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Lich Mong



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:00 pm    Post subject: Ought Comedians Tell Rape jokes? Reply with quote

I hate is-ought questions because of the implied ethics/morality/legality understanding in them.

Ought Comedians tell rape, political, racists, gender, religious, violent, death, disease, social, stereotype, cultural, class, or et cetera jokes?
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Mr Gary



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes.

They ought have only two constraints - honesty and humour.

Tosh whatever failed on both counts.
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Arc Tempest



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I figure you can only answer that with two other questions:

Does the joke itself have roots in hatred?
Does it get a laugh?

The point of comedy is to invoke catharsis. To build tension and then shock the audience into laughter by saying something outrageous is one well defined way to do it. As such, good comedians dance the line between what is acceptable and what is not (Richard Pryor, George Carlin, Louis CK).

Bad comedians dive over the line and never come back (Daniel Tosh).

Racist or sexist "comedians" never even see the line (that one guy you know, everyone knows that one guy with all his hilarious racial jokes).

If the purpose of the joke is not to demean, and it generates laughter, it's fair game. But that's just my opinion.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Gary, but nice to see I'm not the only one who thinks Tosh is shit.
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Last edited by Arc Tempest on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dennis J. Squidbunny



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why are you phrasing the question like the Bard just took a shit in your mouth?
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to try to add a little nuance here because I answered of course but the real meat of my opinion is more shades of grey.

Comedians need to realize that if they continue to be as edgy as possible and push the limits of social acceptability with their humor that it's eventually going to result in a backlash of offended people. If enough people are offended you lose your job and that's just a risk of the industry. So yeah, i think that out of nothing more than enlightened self interest there are things comedians shouldn't joke about, but I think it's heavily mixed with the whole "know your audience" thing that performers really have to keep in mind.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You hate them, so you asked one? Odd. Also, didn't we hash the shit out of this question, then smoke that hash, in the feminism thread?
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Mr Gary



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love Monkey, but did he really just suggest comedians should let free market economy dictate material?
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No I'm suggesting that there are always going to be people who are offended regarding certain topics and every time a comedian tells a joke on one he's basically tossing the dice on starting the next big outrage. Telling people they're wrong to be offended just makes people more pissed off about it.
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Mr Gary



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough, that's a point, though I doubt any comic worth hearing should or would give a fuck about it.
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Adyon



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly would prefer rape isn't a joke. But I've heard people use it and it actually be funny, because they did it with class. But it's rare. I DO on the other hand have problems with the "social acceptance" of rape jokes and the type of people the thought promotes. People like Tosh who I thought was vaguely funny for a few minutes before I realized he was just being vulgar over and over.

So, I'm not going to outlaw anything, including rape jokes, but people like Tosh that just cash in on vulgarity while forsaking intelligence? Yeah they're horrible. I have no taste for them, and I am saddened people do. I've said it before, but it's this new trend in comedy that started emerging, both in movies and TV and in stand-up, where we LAUGH at people in unfortunate situations. That's the problem here. It'd be like if Tat instead of making Crimney an interesting character with a valid point decided to have everyone randomly hurt him and laugh at his pain. The idea would be, "He's a social outcast! It's funny!"

You see it all the time in entertainment, and Tosh's brand of humor is just a lot of it over and over again.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose I should say that my position is pretty simple. I'm more likely to find people funny who speak truth to power rather than those who simply discuss the status quo (fat people are fat because they eat too much! Haha!) or reinforce common tropes (Asian driver! Haha!). Louis CK talking about how shitty it is that gay men can't marry because you don't want to talk to your ugly kid is hilarious. Louis CK taunting a heckler by saying her mom raped a homeless man wasn't funny. To me.

But comedy is individual, so whatever. I wouldn't say anyone should be barred from saying anything. They just need to be prepared to catch hell for it now and then.
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Ten Thousand Things



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.



Ok, now that that's out of the way: I don't think jokes or even words are inherently wrong. Though some people treat certain words that way. It's all how they're used.
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Lich Mong



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems like what most of you are saying is "only when they're funny about it."

That does not seem like a fair standard. How can you tell if a joke is funny until you tell it an see who laughs? Also, what is funny for one is never funny for all. Is there some percentage of people that have to find it funny or in "good taste" for it to be allowable? >50%?

Dennis J. Squidbunny wrote:
Why are you phrasing the question like the Bard just took a shit in your mouth?
I had to throw some "oughts" in there -instead of the more modern 'should'- for David Hume's sake. Out of respect, don't you know.
Dogen wrote:
You hate them, so you asked one?
I hate them because of how nebulous they are to answer. When you say "He should not do that!" What does one mean? That it's immoral? That it's illegal? That his mother wouldn't what him to? That it's simply a bad idea? What? What does "should" or "ought" imply?

But, you still need to ask them. A society is built on "shoulds." However, I guess I should not have asked it, because I never like the answer to one. The answers always refer back to some other subjective ill-defined thing. It seems in this case "good taste" is what is understood as the underlying principle people are building their objection on. But, since "good taste" is very subjective, I'm still at square one in understanding.
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Ten Thousand Things



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Extremes are always easy to refute. So, saying that we ought not to tell rape jokes implies that it is never acceptable (which perhaps you could argue from a certain perspective). The opposite is ridiculous, implying that it is always acceptable to tell rape jokes. The hard question is all about the context that ought or ought not surround the joke.
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Snorri



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe you can give a good case for "ought" no matter what the "ought" is.

so my response is electric chocolate pizza.
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