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Mar 7 2013 -- Victim Blaming 2
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3128
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It happens disproportionately to women, hence it is different. Whole point of my post.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3128
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
I just didn't know that you were a trans-man. I think I had evidence that pointed towards you being a woman, but something told me that it could be otherwise.

That said... What gender do you prefer?


I'm gay, so I prefer men. Getting married shortlym which is awesome.
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was actually asking what gender you prefer for yourself. Since you called yourself gay, though, it's male.

I guess that it's the obvious option, but gender identity is a touchy subject and certainly not my pet topic.

Congratulations! ^^
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Geareye



Joined: 21 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
It happens disproportionately to women, hence it is different. Whole point of my post.


A difference in quantity of appearance of certain phenomenon doesn't change the nature of the phenomenon. Unwanted attention will exist because people will always want to approach new people and will be unable of reading their minds to know if they want to be approached or now. (and they might also not care)

The statistical imbalance of unwanted attention in regard to genders doesn't say anything behind the nature of the phenomenon known as 'unwanted attention' or about its causes. It can be from annoying to dangerous to all genders. All have to protect from it and all will be forced to face it some times.

I understand what the point of your post was. But the fact that unwanted attention happens disproportionaely to women doesn't mean that unwanted attention towards a man is something different than unwanted attention towards a woman.
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well... While it can be mistaken that way, have in mind that stripey's post didn't really say that the problem is that it happens. He says that it happens A LOT, and women get tired of dealing with that bullshit.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
I was actually asking what gender you prefer for yourself. Since you called yourself gay, though, it's male.

I guess that it's the obvious option, but gender identity is a touchy subject and certainly not my pet topic.

Congratulations! ^^


Ah, okay. No worries. Preference is usually used for sexual orientation, sometimes for gender but not much by trans people. Try "What gender do you identify as?" I identify as male.

Thanks!
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Geareye



Joined: 21 Mar 2013
Posts: 255

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
Well... While it can be mistaken that way, have in mind that stripey's post didn't really say that the problem is that it happens. He says that it happens A LOT, and women get tired of dealing with that bullshit.


Unless stripey's point was that women share a collective consciousness so they are collectively annoyed when it happens to one, while men, who as a gender face the problem less often don't get their collective consciousness annoyed that much, that point would be moot. When one , alone woman faces this problem on a face-to-face situation with the annoying/dangerous person, it's the same as when one , alone man faces it.
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well no, stripey's saying that it happens a lot to a single person.

Also stripey that's certainly the better wording.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geareye wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
It happens disproportionately to women, hence it is different. Whole point of my post.


A difference in quantity of appearance of certain phenomenon doesn't change the nature of the phenomenon. Unwanted attention will exist because people will always want to approach new people and will be unable of reading their minds to know if they want to be approached or now. (and they might also not care)

The statistical imbalance of unwanted attention in regard to genders doesn't say anything behind the nature of the phenomenon known as 'unwanted attention' or about its causes. It can be from annoying to dangerous to all genders. All have to protect from it and all will be forced to face it some times.

I understand what the point of your post was. But the fact that unwanted attention happens disproportionaely to women doesn't mean that unwanted attention towards a man is something different than unwanted attention towards a woman.


I never said that it doesn't happen to men, or that when it happens to men it is unimportant. It is different because of the amount. It happens a lot more - hence you are very likely to run into a woman who has been harassed or bothered already that day than if you run into a man.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3128
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geareye wrote:
Leohan wrote:
Well... While it can be mistaken that way, have in mind that stripey's post didn't really say that the problem is that it happens. He says that it happens A LOT, and women get tired of dealing with that bullshit.


Unless stripey's point was that women share a collective consciousness so they are collectively annoyed when it happens to one, while men, who as a gender face the problem less often don't get their collective consciousness annoyed that much, that point would be moot. When one , alone woman faces this problem on a face-to-face situation with the annoying/dangerous person, it's the same as when one , alone man faces it.


Yes, that's it. Women are the borg. Go you, you've figured it out.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3128
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
Asking someone to pay your expenses becomes wrong when your relationship with them is just that.

If you go to a money lender you aren't just asking for money. It becomes a service for which you are expected to pay for later. While that could be called a relationship based on monetary needs, to be honest, I think we both know that's not what I meant.


...I guess that at this point I should clarify that I'm not a marketer and I don't have a marketer's mentality.


Well, we already stated that the problem was to not be direct about it. To be dishonest in the approach. To be manipulative. Subtlety is all about manipulation, and I thought that the manipulation was the problem here.


Sorry, I guess that I just viewed your posts as angry. Internet arguments tend to do that to one's perception.

Cheers!


I think my brain is fried as far as this argument goes. I'll see if I can reboot it later.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6020
Location: California

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geareye wrote:
Leohan wrote:
Well... While it can be mistaken that way, have in mind that stripey's post didn't really say that the problem is that it happens. He says that it happens A LOT, and women get tired of dealing with that bullshit.


Unless stripey's point was that women share a collective consciousness so they are collectively annoyed when it happens to one, while men, who as a gender face the problem less often don't get their collective consciousness annoyed that much, that point would be moot. When one , alone woman faces this problem on a face-to-face situation with the annoying/dangerous person, it's the same as when one , alone man faces it.


no, it really isn't--not because of some "collective consciousness," but because of a different cultural script that generally results in women and men having different fears and reactions to such a situation.

for instance, men don't generally wonder--nor do they generally live in cultures that expect them and train to them to wonder--if this annoying/dangerous person is going to rape them.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3128
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
Geareye wrote:
Leohan wrote:
Well... While it can be mistaken that way, have in mind that stripey's post didn't really say that the problem is that it happens. He says that it happens A LOT, and women get tired of dealing with that bullshit.


Unless stripey's point was that women share a collective consciousness so they are collectively annoyed when it happens to one, while men, who as a gender face the problem less often don't get their collective consciousness annoyed that much, that point would be moot. When one , alone woman faces this problem on a face-to-face situation with the annoying/dangerous person, it's the same as when one , alone man faces it.


no, it really isn't--not because of some "collective consciousness," but because of a different cultural script that generally results in women and men having different fears and reactions to such a situation.

for instance, men don't generally wonder--nor do they generally live in cultures that expect them and train to them to wonder--if this annoying/dangerous person is going to rape them.


There is that thing about having male and female students sit down and write about the following:
"You are in school after dark, and need to head to your car. Describe what you do."
The guys pretty much just write, "I walk to my car."
The women describe actions like making sure they've got their keys in hand to jab eyes out (and to open the door quickly) with or pepper spray, checking if there is anyone who can walk with them, scouting out the parking lot to see who is there and also calling loved ones so that they'll have an idea what happened.
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Geareye



Joined: 21 Mar 2013
Posts: 255

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
Geareye wrote:
Leohan wrote:
Well... While it can be mistaken that way, have in mind that stripey's post didn't really say that the problem is that it happens. He says that it happens A LOT, and women get tired of dealing with that bullshit.


Unless stripey's point was that women share a collective consciousness so they are collectively annoyed when it happens to one, while men, who as a gender face the problem less often don't get their collective consciousness annoyed that much, that point would be moot. When one , alone woman faces this problem on a face-to-face situation with the annoying/dangerous person, it's the same as when one , alone man faces it.


no, it really isn't--not because of some "collective consciousness," but because of a different cultural script that generally results in women and men having different fears and reactions to such a situation.

for instance, men don't generally wonder--nor do they generally live in cultures that expect them and train to them to wonder--if this annoying/dangerous person is going to rape them.


That is something I understand and agree with. Yes, since men are less likely to face such a situtation they are therefore also less likely to fear it.
My point simply was that what the situtation of actually being faced with a potential (or actual) creep/stalker/rapist/annoying_person_who_approaches_you_repeatedly means to you and how you should act about it, is the same, regardless of being a man or a woman.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3271

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolling Eyes
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