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A Respectful Conversation about Rape Culture
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh wait i know why
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seeing as how part of the movement to put an end to rape culture involves creating conditions such that we would have more reliable statistics to better understand the full dimensions of the problem...

no, it is not a "pointless movement"

moreover, if the movement to put an end to rape culture has to be "gender neutral," how is it supposed to handle elements of rape culture that are not gender neutral? how does it deal with slutshaming? or the cultural trope that women (and not men) don't have sex drives? or the cultural trope that the male sex drive (and not the female sex drive) is some kind of unstoppable natural power that the selfsame male (and not a female) cannot be reasonably expected to resist, and that women (and not men) should know better than to tempt? or the corresponding cultural trope that men (and not women) can't be raped because men (and not women) always want sex at all times?

methinks you haven't thought this out very well.
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Black Kitty



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My own thread has gotten away from me - it might take me a bit to catch up... But I hope you're all behaving yourselves Wink
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sad Prepare to be dismayed.
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Black Kitty



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sad
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
seeing as how part of the movement to put an end to rape culture involves creating conditions such that we would have more reliable statistics to better understand the full dimensions of the problem...

no, it is not a "pointless movement"

moreover, if the movement to put an end to rape culture has to be "gender neutral," how is it supposed to handle elements of rape culture that are not gender neutral? how does it deal with slutshaming? or the cultural trope that women (and not men) don't have sex drives? or the cultural trope that the male sex drive (and not the female sex drive) is some kind of unstoppable natural power that the selfsame male (and not a female) cannot be reasonably expected to resist, and that women (and not men) should know better than to tempt? or the corresponding cultural trope that men (and not women) can't be raped because men (and not women) always want sex at all times?

methinks you haven't thought this out very well.


It's like playing a game where the person with the most coins wins, but certain players are automatically provided a substantial number of coins to begin with.
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Kilgore



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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Location: Portland, Or

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over and over again I hear the mantra that "rape is not about sex," and I just can't bring myself to believe it.

Arthain wrote:
I'm not even going to START on the number of cases that started out consensual, and this means being coherent enough to give consent, first and later on the female turned around and decided she was 'raped' after the fact. In a he said/she said situation, the female always wins in the court of law and they know it. At least they do where I live anyways.


Where do you live? I've been working in a prosecutor's office for the last six months, and this dynamic is the exact opposite of what I have observed. It's extremely difficult to get beyond a reasonable doubt when the only evidence is he said/she said.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Overall I have no fondness for that mantra. The people invested in that theory are ingrained at Susan Brownmiller's level of discourse on rape. Rape is often about power, and often about sexual gratification. Usually some combination of both. All of it as abhorrent in nature.
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Dennis J. Squidbunny



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kilgore wrote:
Over and over again I hear the mantra that "rape is not about sex," and I just can't bring myself to believe it.

Arthain wrote:
I'm not even going to START on the number of cases that started out consensual, and this means being coherent enough to give consent, first and later on the female turned around and decided she was 'raped' after the fact. In a he said/she said situation, the female always wins in the court of law and they know it. At least they do where I live anyways.


Where do you live? I've been working in a prosecutor's office for the last six months, and this dynamic is the exact opposite of what I have observed. It's extremely difficult to get beyond a reasonable doubt when the only evidence is he said/she said.


Without wanting to put our new internet dad in a certain box, I feel it's pretty stereotypical MRA behaviour to spout off about how juries always side with 'the female' in rape cases. I think that is some heavy fucking bullshit, and would love to see some news articles/statistics/anything at all.

Also the phrase 'and they know it' really makes you come across like some sort of fucking cunt, so maybe you should just fuck off back to Spearhead where everyone will clap you on the back (no gay) and howl about the foul injustices that females visit upon innocent men?
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Sam



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note the characteristic use of the word "female" which makes it sound like an alien docudrama written by Ferengi.

The female then decides that it is a rape victim. The female always wins in the court of law. The female knows this. The forty-seventh rule of acquisition states

(it's not like I need to pile on in this case but by now this habit of using "female" to describe women even when it makes descriptions of women seem stilted and clinical is so well known among MRA-styled types that it is almost a stereotype)
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Dennis J. Squidbunny



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, get back to your space ship, shit bag!
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'the female always wins'

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

EDIT: Actually I do. I'm going to be fucking angry. Because fuck you! It's people like you why so many rape victims won't report their case because people like you make them seem like evil greedy liars. 'Oh but those poor men who gets falsely accused (what, like maybe 1% of them actually get convicted?) deserve more protection than those who have been actually raped (1 out of 3 women and 1 out of 9 men - and those are just the ones reported)!' Fuck everything.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, the "female" always wins.

First she wins some free "surprise sex"

Then she wins some suspicion and shame about her behavior, clothing, moral character.

Then she wins a face to face confrontation with the person who she had the "surprise sex" with

Then she wins a life of putting the pieces of her ability to trust, feel, and enjoy normal, non surprise sex back together

Sometimes she wins the bonus of having to deal with the male remaining in her life because he didn't get sent to jail.
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
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Location: Hedonism

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember when our high school gym teacher essentially gave us a public service announcement telling us (being an all-guys gym class) that if we didn't get consent from someone when they were sober, then if you were taken to court by said person for rape, then it will be your word against theirs and they are essentially guaranteed to win in court.

It may have been sexist, but at least it kinda drew attention to the fact that drunk and/or passed out people can't give consent and having sex with them is in fact rape.
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Kilgore



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
1 out of 3 women


source?
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