welcome to the fest
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Rationally speaking... 4/2
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 10, 11, 12  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Valerie



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:
That's true, I guess I was just confused because the comic wasn't going "Oh no! SADNESS!" , it was oh no, ANY EMOTION! Perhaps the generalization to all emotions that threw me for a loop.


I can see how that would be confusing. Anger gets an odd double-standard here, where it's not considered the same as other emotions. Other emotions-- love, sadness, anxiety, etc.-- are considered to be "weak," while anger is considered to be "strong." After all, anger leads to shouting and hitting things, and what's stronger than that? Rolling Eyes

Taking the risk of slipping into what some others are talking about here (about marginalized groups giving personal experience as an example), I'm female, and my father has often dismissed me when I start getting upset, even when I have a perfectly good reason to be upset.

Once, back in 2008 when it really looked like we might have our first female president, my father was expressing his distaste for the idea because a woman would get into a fight with her husband and "push the big red button." Yes, my dad believes that women should not have "too much" power because they are emotional and will start wars based on their personal relationships. I was, obviously, upset by this, but I just stared out the window trying not to cry because I knew he wasn't going to take me seriously. Because I was an upset woman.

That said, I once slept through my dad banging on the walls and door when he'd locked himself out. I finally got up to let him in (when he had broken a window and shouted "VALERIE ANN OPEN THE GODDAMN DOOR"-- I'm a really heavy sleeper sometimes, okay!?), and he came in, screaming, red-faced. I waited for him to stop, remaining calm the entire time, and asked him, "Are you okay?"

"...WHAT."
"Are you okay?"
"YEAH, I'M OKAY."

And yet women are the irrational ones.

I'm not trying to dismiss my dad's emotions here. I know why he was so upset; that was a very frustrating position for him. I'm just pointing out the fact that he thinks a woman will get upset over her husband and send a country to war, and then he does... that.

There are many other examples, but I'm trying to live peacefully with my family right now. *eye twitch*
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
khan



Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Posts: 168

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what i project into/get out of this comic is satire of the rare people that choose to ignore an emotional response that supposedly others would not have, and have ignored it because the course of action is profoundly illogical. Hence, the dudeguy is stomping the bejesus out of assumably his heart (satirical representation of his heart, but could also be battering someone elses heart, no name on it), so my view is a man that rejects love (not neccesarily romantic) for very logical reasons. Either hes hurting himself or someone else.
Very funny comic... many people assume that people that show little emotion/reaction are without or denying emotion, reality can be that there mode of expressing emotion is not clear to others.

Final point, it could be a non-satirical examination of a situation in which emotion is very strong but extremely dangerous or risky... common sense may dictate ignoring emotion, thus beating ones hesrt into silence or at least submission for the sake of self-preservation. Love is likely to create this scenario, hence the heart. 1000 years ago theyd be stomping a liver instead!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tricksterson



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 468

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if this is a slap at Objectivism.
_________________
I aim to misbehave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Padlock



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valerie wrote:
(I'm a really heavy sleeper sometimes, okay!?)

My husband and I once slept through having cops and people in our chain of command beating on our door because we were both on night shift, had stayed up late into the day to do admin stuff, and therefore were dead asleep. Good times.

I agree that anger, including its varying shades, as an emotion tends to get treated differently from other emotions. In a media context, a lot of people like to see characters get angry, get fired up, and fix all of their problems--they don't want to see the main character break down and wallow in their misery for three weeks on the couch as they neglect basic hygiene, even though that's just as realistic a reaction as getting angry and punching people in the face.

I remember when I was in high school and we had to read the Kite Runner.

[SPOILERS TO FOLLOW IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE BOOK/SEEN THE MOVIE]

We were discussing the rape scene and how Amir reacted to it. One of the people in my class said he should have intervened, but I was of the mind that, one, Amir is a little kid, and two, fear is a valid response in that situation, even if he wasn't a little kid.

I've seen this kind of reaction to any sort of perceived character weakness--"why didn't they do anything, why did they just lie around like an emo piece of shit"--and those reactions leak into real life contexts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 1103
Location: Hel

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it might be less a slap at objectivism and rationality as it's a slap at (1) applying those characteristics solely to men and not to women and (2) inconsistencies in the way rational thought is applied.

If we strive to reach a position as close as possible to rationality, we must condemn anger and blind hostility as well as other emotions.

It could be said that the strip, assuming this interpretation, takes the position of objectivity and rationality, and condemns pretense.

I am of the mind to say that when making decisions, we must utilize a purely rational/logical approach, and set our own emotions aside- the key here though, is that we must not, in doing so, forget to consider the emotions of those affected by our decisions.

And then once the decision is made, THEN we can go find pillows to cry into, or sacks to punch, or pony plushies to hold while we suck our thumbs and glare at monitors from our spinny-chairs.
_________________
Greetings, fool mortals.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6083
Location: California

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it probably is a slap at applying rationality to men and not women; that's a traditional line of legitimating oppression of women (and of non-white people more generally; European colonialists often justified their imperialism by saying that they were bringing reason to the "savages")
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
it probably is a slap at applying rationality to men and not women; that's a traditional line of legitimating oppression of women (and of non-white people more generally; European colonialists often justified their imperialism by saying that they were bringing reason to the "savages")


Yes, by beating up your own heart, your suppressing someone else Rolling Eyes

I thought it was another "take that audience" that criticize the comic's way of presenting the ideas, and don't just get 'moved' by the message itself. Kind of like how I complain about the fembot and such.
_________________
The Angry Asshat.


Last edited by Rothide on Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6083
Location: California

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

on the other hand, rothide may very well need someone to bring him reason
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6514

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that point couldn't have flown any higher if you strapped it to a rocket.
_________________
Samsally the GrayAce
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
on the other hand, rothide may very well need someone to bring him reason


If he was beating up someone else for showing an "irrational" emotion, I think you'd have something there. But since he's basically beating himself up, I do not think you have legs to stand on.

Unless he's doing that because of the pressure of others of course, but it looks more surprised he's having an emotion, than worried that having it will cause him to appear uncivilized.
_________________
The Angry Asshat.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
that point couldn't have flown any higher if you strapped it to a rocket.


Yes, of course, cause it's your point, hard to for the dregs of humanity to reach a point made in an ivory tower.
_________________
The Angry Asshat.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6083
Location: California

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so the idea is that "irrationality" is taken to be on the side of women and non-white people, and it's associated with emotion, and so purging yourself of irrationality--by, say, metaphorically ripping your heart and battering it into submission when it presents you with irrational emotions--is an effort to be "rational" and thus not like what a woman or non-white person is taken to be

now let's see how far that sails over rothide's head!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6514

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
Samsally wrote:
that point couldn't have flown any higher if you strapped it to a rocket.


Yes, of course, cause it's your point, hard to for the dregs of humanity to reach a point made in an ivory tower.

I didn't make a point. I was just commenting on it's impressive range.
_________________
Samsally the GrayAce
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
so the idea is that "irrationality" is taken to be on the side of women and non-white people, and it's associated with emotion, and so purging yourself of irrationality--by, say, metaphorically ripping your heart and battering it into submission when it presents you with irrational emotions--is an effort to be "rational" and thus not like what a woman or non-white person is taken to be

now let's see how far that sails over rothide's head!
\

Sigh...

What your saying is that Rational Man here thinks that showing an emotion is the same as being weak, and since he thinks that only women can be weak by showing emotion (which is dumb, your not weak if you show emotion), he has to stop it.

What I'm saying is that this is a Take that to anyone that uses reason to point out the flaws of Tat's comic. The Fembot's magical sentience, the reality zone no longer being "reality" as we know it, etc. instead of just letting the emotion of the scene state everything that's needed. He's the nitpick, and rather than experience an emotional scene, he points out the fallacies.
_________________
The Angry Asshat.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yrvani



Joined: 01 Apr 2013
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Istancow wrote:
I am of the mind to say that when making decisions, we must utilize a purely rational/logical approach, and set our own emotions aside- the key here though, is that we must not, in doing so, forget to consider the emotions of those affected by our decisions.

And then once the decision is made, THEN we can go find pillows to cry into, or sacks to punch, or pony plushies to hold while we suck our thumbs and glare at monitors from our spinny-chairs.


I strongly disagree here. While we should always strive towards objectivity and rational approach, in order to do so emotions and other softer considerations must come into play and not be the least put aside or opressed. Both yours and others. We must never attempt or fool ourself that our actual approach is rational or objective, that is a mere illusion and will just cement you to one side in an argument and only serve to make you not very objective at all.
_________________
\m/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 10, 11, 12  Next
Page 3 of 12

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group