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No such thing. [4/3/2013]
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Valerie



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:13 am    Post subject: No such thing. [4/3/2013] Reply with quote



Oof. Poor Xanthe. That's rough. I guess she did see Slick as real-Slick and not as devil-Slick...
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Rothide



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But... when did she ever reach out to them? I'm not being snide or a smart-ass about this. Truly, where in her actions did she ever reach out to a male person for help in this fight?

I'm sorry if this is victim blaming, I don't want to start another damn fight in this board to, I'm tired of fighting, I just want to enjoy a comic that I enjoyed for the past 5 years again. And at least this is a step in the right direction, she can feel defeat, she can feel failure, and that at least means that she's much more fleshed out as a character now.
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redshirt26



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you would have told me six months ago that there would be a strip where I would feel sorry for Xanthe, I would not have believed it.
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Rothide



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

redshirt26 wrote:
If you would have told me six months ago that there would be a strip where I would feel sorry for Xanthe, I would not have believed it.


You and me both...
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Valerie



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
But... when did she ever reach out to them? I'm not being snide or a smart-ass about this. Truly, where in her actions did she ever reach out to a male person for help in this fight?

I'm sorry if this is victim blaming, I don't want to start another damn fight in this board to, I'm tired of fighting, I just want to enjoy a comic that I enjoyed for the past 5 years again. And at least this is a step in the right direction, she can feel defeat, she can feel failure, and that at least means that she's much more fleshed out as a character now.


She did seem to be on somewhat friendly terms with him. I think it's not so much "MEN ARE SCUM" and more "this man that I was friends with just turned his back on me when I needed him in a very specific feminist-related issue." She's very upset right now, and that's probably causing her to generalize. That's not to say generalization is okay, obviously, but she feels betrayed right now, and hurt people say things they don't mean.

Real female feminists feel this way from time to time, too. It's easy to have a male friend who you think is more-or-less on your side regarding these issues, then he slips up and says something that just shatters your faith in him. I have a few male friends who are interested in equality and generally support it, but now and then they'll say something stupid. One in particular is a man who is certain that homosexuality is a choice. He's fine with gay people getting married and adopting kids, but he's positive that they can choose who they find attractive, and that's a harmful viewpoint to have, so it shook me a little to find that out about him.

(I'm still friends with him. At the end of the day, we have the same goals.)
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Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valerie wrote:
It's easy to have a male friend who you think is more-or-less on your side regarding these issues, then he slips up and says something that just shatters your faith in him.
But, it's just your male friends that do that, hu?
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Rothide



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valerie wrote:
Rothide wrote:
But... when did she ever reach out to them? I'm not being snide or a smart-ass about this. Truly, where in her actions did she ever reach out to a male person for help in this fight?

I'm sorry if this is victim blaming, I don't want to start another damn fight in this board to, I'm tired of fighting, I just want to enjoy a comic that I enjoyed for the past 5 years again. And at least this is a step in the right direction, she can feel defeat, she can feel failure, and that at least means that she's much more fleshed out as a character now.


She did seem to be on somewhat friendly terms with him. I think it's not so much "MEN ARE SCUM" and more "this man that I was friends with just turned his back on me when I needed him in a very specific feminist-related issue." She's very upset right now, and that's probably causing her to generalize. That's not to say generalization is okay, obviously, but she feels betrayed right now, and hurt people say things they don't mean.

Real female feminists feel this way from time to time, too. It's easy to have a male friend who you think is more-or-less on your side regarding these issues, then he slips up and says something that just shatters your faith in him. I have a few male friends who are interested in equality and generally support it, but now and then they'll say something stupid. One in particular is a man who is certain that homosexuality is a choice. He's fine with gay people getting married and adopting kids, but he's positive that they can choose who they find attractive, and that's a harmful viewpoint to have, so it shook me a little to find that out about him.

(I'm still friends with him. At the end of the day, we have the same goals.)


When did she act friendly to him though? The only time someone treated Slick nice from the Sisterhood was when grandma gave him a cookie... she even said "Just eat the damn cookie" to him after he kept celebrating.
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LadySunami



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
But... when did she ever reach out to them? I'm not being snide or a smart-ass about this. Truly, where in her actions did she ever reach out to a male person for help in this fight?

People can be stubborn. Sometimes when I could use emotional support or help with my problems I find it really hard to confide in others, let alone asking for their assistance. It is especially hard as a female. I worry people will start fitting me into the stereotypical "weak female" role and stop valuing my input.

My difficulty in reaching out to others in no way prevents me from being hurt by their actions though. If I see someone as being kind or sympathetic and they betray that view, it still hurts me. It doesn't matter if I confided in them or not. They were someone I thought I could trust and go to in the future, and they proved me wrong. Maybe it's not as bad as it would be if I'd confided, but it still stings... And makes it that much harder to trust in the future.

Xanthe doesn't need to ask Slick to be a feminist ally to feel betrayed. She's a proud person. Asking for help doesn't seem her style. That doesn't mean she was blind to Slick's changing behavior though. She probably had high hopes for the guy. Having them dashed has gotta hurt.
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Valerie



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
When did she act friendly to him though? The only time someone treated Slick nice from the Sisterhood was when grandma gave him a cookie... she even said "Just eat the damn cookie" to him after he kept celebrating.


Note that I said "somewhat." Xanthe isn't a warm, happy person, from what we know about her. I take her snarking-- the fact that she's talked to him at all, really-- as an affirmation of some kind of friendly-acquaintance-ship.

We also know that Monique tries to get through to him, and that Xanthe and Monique are acquaintances. Therefore, it makes sense that Xanthe could think of Slick as an ally.

Edit: There's also the fact that Slick has acted as an ally once or twice, one time here, and we know that Xanthe knows about that because she commented on his cookie, as you said.
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Rothide



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valerie wrote:
Rothide wrote:
When did she act friendly to him though? The only time someone treated Slick nice from the Sisterhood was when grandma gave him a cookie... she even said "Just eat the damn cookie" to him after he kept celebrating.


Note that I said "somewhat." Xanthe isn't a warm, happy person, from what we know about her. I take her snarking-- the fact that she's talked to him at all, really-- as an affirmation of some kind of friendly-acquaintance-ship.

We also know that Monique tries to get through to him, and that Xanthe and Monique are acquaintances. Therefore, it makes sense that Xanthe could think of Slick as an ally.

Edit: There's also the fact that Slick has acted as an ally once or twice, one time here, and we know that Xanthe knows about that because she commented on his cookie, as you said.


See the comments she gave, to me, would seem like someone you don't want anything to do with. Just because people speak to you, doesn't mean they like you or even respect you. And with the way she usually acts, as you said not warmly or happy, which could lead to Slick maybe even thinking, "What I do doesn't matter, she's going to be mean either way."
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Last edited by Rothide on Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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Felgraf



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, this is going in a dark direction. Poor Xanthe.

I do hope she or others in the sisterhood don't take something out on Crim or Squig. (Due to this disillusionment. Not because the sisterhood is bad people. They're not).

Though I'm confused as to whether or not Slick was actually involved or not, since... Slick and Kcils/Sleaze seem *connected*, but are they the same person? Is one in control of the other's actions?

('Course, I suppose Xanthe could just have been mistaken/misinterpreted what she saw.)
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LadySunami



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valerie wrote:
I have a few male friends who are interested in equality and generally support it, but now and then they'll say something stupid. One in particular is a man who is certain that homosexuality is a choice. He's fine with gay people getting married and adopting kids, but he's positive that they can choose who they find attractive, and that's a harmful viewpoint to have, so it shook me a little to find that out about him.

(I'm still friends with him. At the end of the day, we have the same goals.)

I sort of wonder if such people aren't all some shade of bisexual (as in your friend, not gay folks.) They know they could have the hots for someone their same sex, but take the fact that they're more attracted to members of the opposite sex as some sort of choice they made.
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Arkhron



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is sad... I feel sorrow for her. And I like her now more than yesterday.

And... Mr. Tatsuya is a male allie so... or this strip is the foreword to Slick truly changing his mind and being better (not trying, being) and starting a more closer relationship with Xanthe, thus proving this way we all can change and that there IS male allies...

Or there is no such thing and Mr. Tatsuya isn't a male allie too and and and I think I cross-eyed
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Valerie



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:
Valerie wrote:
It's easy to have a male friend who you think is more-or-less on your side regarding these issues, then he slips up and says something that just shatters your faith in him.
But, it's just your male friends that do that, hu?


Ah, no. Female friends, too. And the female family members, my God. o_o But "male" seemed necessary in this context, since Xanthe is saying there's no such thing as male allies. And, as I said, it's a split-second reaction to an emotional response. You feel betrayed, and your brain comes up with something stupid. It's not always "Joey isn't my ally," sometimes it initally pops up as "men aren't my allies," and that is wrong and it takes like two minutes at most to realize that.

The sad fact is that we live in a reality that pits men and women against each other, and so we'll often see the gender of a person as being the problem, even just as an immediate reaction. Some people continue to think that gender is the problem, labelling men as cheaters and women as liars, etc., and some people scold themselves because they know better than that.

I'll admit, there have been moments when I've wondered if there are any men who are truly on my side, but I quickly realized that it's a sexist way of thinking. There are plenty of women who aren't on my side, so of course there are some men who are.
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Valerie



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
See the comments she gave, to me, would seem like someone you don't want anything to do with. Just because people speak to you, doesn't mean they like you or even respect you. And with the way she usually acts, as you said not warmly or happy, which could lead to Slick maybe even thinking, "What I do doesn't matter, she's going to be mean either way."


It is possible that Slick thinks that, but the question was "When has she ever reached out to Slick," and that falls on Xanthe's attempts to reach out (no matter how bad they were), not on Slick's reactions.

LadySunami wrote:
I sort of wonder if such people aren't all some shade of bisexual (as in your friend, not gay folks.) They know they could have the hots for someone their same sex, but take the fact that they're more attracted to members of the opposite sex as some sort of choice they made.


I've always wondered that, too. Anyone who is so positive that it's a choice must have made that choice at some point, right?
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