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No such thing. [4/3/2013]
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pun



Joined: 30 Mar 2013
Posts: 35
Location: United States

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i should also mention the parallels between this comic: sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4590
and this one:sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4582
both are circumstances where slick finds himself surrounded by sexist dudebros. in the previous comic, he makes a mild effort to tell them that their attitude is not a-ok. in the more recent one, at least from xanthe's perspective, he turns his back when it really matters.
idk just thought i'd point that out.
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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 1663
Location: im probably asleep right now

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
So what I'm getting at is, I never understood why certified Sinfest analyst Miss M could ship him with anyone else, let alone Xanthe, who does not only have nothing in common with him but also has, for the longest time, been so flat a character that the RZ would have turned her to paper. At this point I realize that I've been doing the same thing for years.

I approve of Slick x Xanthe.


I love how for like a year now everyone couldn't understand what was up with Slick/Xanthe but now y'all are like, OHHHHHH I GET IT NOW. It's a truly gratifying experience. :J

No one is more analytic than me when it comes to the dynamics of fictional characters. Ain't nobody. What.

Rothide wrote:
I also don't ship people if they have a cannon shipping, and I dont do yuri/yaoi, specially when they show no signs of homosexual or bisexual tendencies.


FIRST OF ALL, YOU ARE THE WET BLANKET OF SHIPPING AND I CANNOT COMPREHEND HOW VANILLA AND BORING YOU ARE WITH SHIPPING.

BUT I CAN ACCEPT IT AND WILL FOCUS ON IT NO FURTHER THAN I ALREADY HAVE. HOWEVER, MORE IMPORTANTLY, I MUST INFORM YOU THAT YURI/YAOI REFERS TO PORNOGRAPHY AND ONLY APPLIES TO EASTERN WORKS. WHEN REFERRING TO NON-SEXUAL ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIPS INVOLVING SAME-SEX PAIRINGS IN AN EASTERN FRANCHISE THE WORDS YOU WOULD BE LOOKING FOR ARE SHOUJO AI AND SHONEN AI.

BUT FOR WESTERN WORK THAT HAPPENS TO BE ROMANTIC OR SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS INVOLVING SAME-SEX PAIRINGS WOULD BE SLASH AND FEMSLASH. KEEPING THIS IN MIND IS IMPORTANT FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS, NAMELY THAT IT'S KIND OF APPROPRIATING A CULTURE YOU'RE NOT APART OF, AND AGAIN. YAOI AND YURI ARE TERMS THAT REFER TO MOSTLY SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN TWO PEOPLE OF THE SAME SEX. WHICH I AM 100 PERCENT POSITIVE IS NOT EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO IN THIS CONTEXT. HOPE THIS HELPED, SON! (◠‿◠✿)

tricksterson wrote:
You ship people because you think they'll be happy together? How quaint.


Man, I know right? Where's the fun in a fictional relationship that does not have challenges and doesn't require effort and an improvement of character to work out? Like, man, there's no fun in if there isn't any effort or any kind of struggle of which to discuss.

What's the fun in a relationship that wouldn't need plenty of analysis to understand? To comprehend, to see the chances of working out? That shit is too boring for me, man.
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sammich



Joined: 21 Jun 2012
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
as a Male Ally, I feel as if I should comment on this thread, but ensure that in doing so I am not speaking over women on the subject of feminism or appropriating life experiences which are not mine. And my comment is: fartzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


The idea of male allies is terrible. It implies only women can be feminists and men can't independently influence feminist movements, making men subordinate in a way that most feminists would probably find morally repugnant.
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Geareye



Joined: 21 Mar 2013
Posts: 226

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't...I just can't say it with words. Both supreme precision in pairing terminology and an explanation of why pairings that don't 'flow' with ease are delightful to watch.
Beautifully done, Miss M, here have a virtual cookie! (*hands cookie*)
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 785

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miss Magenta wrote:
Leohan wrote:
So what I'm getting at is, I never understood why certified Sinfest analyst Miss M could ship him with anyone else, let alone Xanthe, who does not only have nothing in common with him but also has, for the longest time, been so flat a character that the RZ would have turned her to paper. At this point I realize that I've been doing the same thing for years.

I approve of Slick x Xanthe.


I love how for like a year now everyone couldn't understand what was up with Slick/Xanthe but now y'all are like, OHHHHHH I GET IT NOW. It's a truly gratifying experience. :J

No one is more analytic than me when it comes to the dynamics of fictional characters. Ain't nobody. What.

Rothide wrote:
I also don't ship people if they have a cannon shipping, and I dont do yuri/yaoi, specially when they show no signs of homosexual or bisexual tendencies.


FIRST OF ALL, YOU ARE THE WET BLANKET OF SHIPPING AND I CANNOT COMPREHEND HOW VANILLA AND BORING YOU ARE WITH SHIPPING.

BUT I CAN ACCEPT IT AND WILL FOCUS ON IT NO FURTHER THAN I ALREADY HAVE. HOWEVER, MORE IMPORTANTLY, I MUST INFORM YOU THAT YURI/YAOI REFERS TO PORNOGRAPHY AND ONLY APPLIES TO EASTERN WORKS. WHEN REFERRING TO NON-SEXUAL ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIPS INVOLVING SAME-SEX PAIRINGS IN AN EASTERN FRANCHISE THE WORDS YOU WOULD BE LOOKING FOR ARE SHOUJO AI AND SHONEN AI.

BUT FOR WESTERN WORK THAT HAPPENS TO BE ROMANTIC OR SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS INVOLVING SAME-SEX PAIRINGS WOULD BE SLASH AND FEMSLASH. KEEPING THIS IN MIND IS IMPORTANT FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS, NAMELY THAT IT'S KIND OF APPROPRIATING A CULTURE YOU'RE NOT APART OF, AND AGAIN. YAOI AND YURI ARE TERMS THAT REFER TO MOSTLY SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN TWO PEOPLE OF THE SAME SEX. WHICH I AM 100 PERCENT POSITIVE IS NOT EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO IN THIS CONTEXT. HOPE THIS HELPED, SON! (◠‿◠✿)

tricksterson wrote:
You ship people because you think they'll be happy together? How quaint.


Man, I know right? Where's the fun in a fictional relationship that does not have challenges and doesn't require effort and an improvement of character to work out? Like, man, there's no fun in if there isn't any effort or any kind of struggle of which to discuss.

What's the fun in a relationship that wouldn't need plenty of analysis to understand? To comprehend, to see the chances of working out? That shit is too boring for me, man.


My apologies with that Yuri/Yaoi, I gained most of my experience with that from a female member of my college's anime club, who argued vehemitley that Yaoi was not pronography.
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What happena my handle?



Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 224

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

redshirt26 wrote:
If you would have told me six months ago that there would be a strip where I would feel sorry for Xanthe, I would not have believed it.
I don't feel sorry for her here. She was more sympathetic in her "Day in the Life" Sunday strip.

No, right now I'm really wondering what is up with Tat.
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Dennis J. Squidbunny



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3714
Location: AUSTRALIA YOU FAKIR

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAT ARE YOU OKAY, HE SAID, AS CLEARY THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOU WITH ALL THIS WOMAN WRITING YOU'RE DOING.
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Night Spade



Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Posts: 1144
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dennis J. Squidbunny wrote:
TAT ARE YOU OKAY, HE SAID, AS CLEARY THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOU WITH ALL THIS WOMAN WRITING YOU'RE DOING.


I have noticed that Sinfest seems to be all about gender issues, third-wave feminism and the patriarchy during the last couple of months anthese days.

Is Tat a supporter of 3WF or a critic, it is kinda hard to tell.
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 2882

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I myself personally don't see any need to "ship" Slick and Xanthe. Just having them be friends would work.

As far as we know, Xanthe trusts exactly one male character, Gay Guy (and there's at least an even chance that he's her older brother). What few if any commentators stop to think about is: Maybe there's a reason she feels that way. Maybe, in the context of her fictional character biography, something happened to make her feel that way.

(I foresee yet another series of dialogue-less flashback Sunday strips in our future; sigh; well, we'll always have archives)

The fact that she was considering Slick as even a potential friend was perhaps in itself groundbreaking for her. So it's like:

"The one guy. The one damned guy I almost let in..."

(Of course, this raises the question of why she's never tried hanging around with Crim, but that's literally another story.)

As a reminder for some readers, Xanthe has actually been deliberately gathering information on Slick for almost a year:


http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4260

I'm guessing she doesn't do that with just anybody.

On another note, the past Monday marked the one-year anniversary of the strip in which Sleaze/Kcils/Devil Slick first appeared to begin with:

http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4226

Which leads to the question: Mint. What's her deal...?
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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 1663
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronald wrote:
I myself personally don't see any need to "ship" Slick and Xanthe. Just having them be friends would work.


Well, yeah. I'd be more than happy with them just as friends too. Friendship is fucking wonderful and I love the exploration of two characters becoming unlikely friends.

But that's not really going to stop me from adoring the idea of them possibly becoming more than just friends somewhere down the line, now will it? Certainly won't stop me from exploring it in any kind of fanwork, either.
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Valerie



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diagram12345 wrote:
LadySunami wrote:
Valerie wrote:
I have a few male friends who are interested in equality and generally support it, but now and then they'll say something stupid. One in particular is a man who is certain that homosexuality is a choice. He's fine with gay people getting married and adopting kids, but he's positive that they can choose who they find attractive, and that's a harmful viewpoint to have, so it shook me a little to find that out about him.

(I'm still friends with him. At the end of the day, we have the same goals.)

I sort of wonder if such people aren't all some shade of bisexual (as in your friend, not gay folks.) They know they could have the hots for someone their same sex, but take the fact that they're more attracted to members of the opposite sex as some sort of choice they made.


^ Probably this. I think that there are "pure" heterosexuals and homosexuals, but many of us are somewhere in between. If a woman who has until then dated only men were to feel some attraction towards women, she could choose to act on it or she could choose not to. Only "pure" hetero/homo people really have no choice at all.


Well, you also don't choose to be bisexual. Being homo/hertero/bi/pan/whateversexual is about who you find attractive, not about who you sleep with. A gay person can choose to sleep exclusively with the opposite sex, for example, but that doesn't mean the person isn't gay.

But I think we're more or less on the same page.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But in this strip: http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4582 did Slick even actually call it out? You never see him type the words in response to what's on the computer. Tat has shown typed responses from his chars while they're on the computer plenty, but it is notably absent in that strip. He just recognized the sexism for himself, and hey, kudos for that. But he stood up for no one. Not even online.

Slick has no skin in the game. He has not even remotely stuck his neck out. He called himself an ally, and Xanthe told him to just enjoy the cookies-for-me reward that he was really after, which he got. She did not acknowledge the ally claim at that time. Here she's rejecting it, and is clearly let down by the actions that spoke louder than words. Allies have skin in the game with you.
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Cactuar



Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:

I also don't ship people if they have a cannon shipping, and I dont do yuri/yaoi, specially when they show no signs of homosexual or bisexual tendencies.


Not to be confrontational, but do you ship het ships when they show no signs of heterosexual tendencies? Or are you only applying that special criteria to QUILTBAG relationships?

FOR EXAMPLE, with the exception of Sanji's over the top displays of affection for every lady in his general vicinity, the main characters on One Piece are pretty much 100% platonic with each other. Which I actually appreciate about a show in an era when everything ever has to have some lame romance shoehorned into it.

So I can assume you would not feel comfortable shipping any of those characters, even if you thought they 'clicked,' since they have not shown themselves specifically to be heterosexual?
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Valerie



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
as a Male Ally, I feel as if I should comment on this thread, but ensure that in doing so I am not speaking over women on the subject of feminism or appropriating life experiences which are not mine. And my comment is: fartzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


We appreciate your support. Razz
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Valerie



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sammich wrote:
Sam wrote:
as a Male Ally, I feel as if I should comment on this thread, but ensure that in doing so I am not speaking over women on the subject of feminism or appropriating life experiences which are not mine. And my comment is: fartzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


The idea of male allies is terrible. It implies only women can be feminists and men can't independently influence feminist movements, making men subordinate in a way that most feminists would probably find morally repugnant.


As a female feminist, this seems like something I should consider. I've always referred to men as "allies," but I also call them "feminists." My husband, for example, is a feminist. I also call him a male ally for feminism. I guess I feel like the terms are interchangeable, but maybe that's wrong of me.

I just know that some men prefer not to be labelled as feminists, instead being more comfortable with "pro-feminist" or "ally." The discomfort isn't like "ew that's a word for GIRLS" so much as it is that they feel, having not fought the same battles, that they should not claim to be feminists? At least, that's what I've got of it.

It's kind of like a war, I guess. If Country X and Country S are fighting, and Country Y tries to lend some aid to Country X, they are still a separate body from the other country and so wouldn't declare themselves as citizens.

Country X = women, Country Y = men, Country S = society. u c wut i did thur?

All of that said, I have no problem with whatever label men want to choose for themselves. It's just a little confusing when it comes to what I should call them, when talking about men-who-support-feminism as a group.

In any case, it is something to think about. I like to try my best not to offend people, so I need to figure out a way to describe them that doesn't exclude anyone.
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