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4/8/2013 - misguided
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crayven



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 267

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seriously the guy has issues that he feels sorry for stuff that he made years ago. Stuff that ironically was actually fun.
And let's not delve into the fact how every group is "sensitive" and must not be made fun off, but at the same time he bashed incessantly men in his strip with the sisterhood.
Yeah..."misguided".

"Hypocrite" would be a better word to describe his older self now.
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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 1162
Location: Behind my Cintiq

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck I'm too late with the popcorn.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE WHITEZ check

SELF-REFLECTION = CUTTING URSELF check

BUT MY FREE SPEECH hmm still missing this one. come on guys, I need that bingo.

Actually, I think for a true bingo, someone needs to find away to still complain about feminism too! =P



*edit*NEVERMIND! Crayven took care of that just now while I took too long to post!

And with a complaint about his old stuff being good while his new stuff isn't (yet they stick around)? We forgot to even include that one on the card!
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2717
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adyon wrote:
Yinello wrote:
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck I'm too late with the popcorn.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE WHITEZ check

SELF-REFLECTION = CUTTING URSELF check

BUT MY FREE SPEECH hmm still missing this one. come on guys, I need that bingo.

Actually, I think for a true bingo, someone needs to find away to still complain about feminism too! =P



*edit*NEVERMIND! Crayven took care of that just now while I took too long to post!

And with a complaint about his old stuff being good while his new stuff isn't (yet they stick around)? We forgot to even include that one on the card!


Oh yeah I forgot about that, but it kind of just seems natural nowadays that someone goes OMG EVIL FEMINISM. Like a habit. xD

OH shit and that one too. Someone needs to make a Sinfest Bingo card.
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Arc Tempest



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 4898
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, I hadn't thought about it, but this general forum shit-headery would actually make for a pretty decent bingo game. Whole mess of categories, randomly generated squares, first person to get x in a row wins the thread.
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crayven



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 267

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adyon wrote:
Yinello wrote:
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck I'm too late with the popcorn.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE WHITEZ check

SELF-REFLECTION = CUTTING URSELF check

BUT MY FREE SPEECH hmm still missing this one. come on guys, I need that bingo.

Actually, I think for a true bingo, someone needs to find away to still complain about feminism too! =P



*edit*NEVERMIND! Crayven took care of that just now while I took too long to post!

And with a complaint about his old stuff being good while his new stuff isn't (yet they stick around)? We forgot to even include that one on the card!

I honestly have gotten used to not laugh at this comic lately, i just come, see it, do a "meh, more feminism i guess" and move on.
Arguing here has been fruitless so i stopped doing it.

But his earlier strips were funny.
And related to your earlier post, the status quo is to be politically correct, thus by being that, he has just become conformed to what society wants ( social pressure ).
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2717
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arc Tempest wrote:
You know, I hadn't thought about it, but this general forum shit-headery would actually make for a pretty decent bingo game. Whole mess of categories, randomly generated squares, first person to get x in a row wins the thread.


Yessss

If no one does it before I get home to open my photoshop, I will.
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Gibson22



Joined: 01 Jul 2012
Posts: 301

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck I'm too late with the popcorn.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE WHITEZ check

SELF-REFLECTION = CUTTING URSELF check

BUT MY FREE SPEECH hmm still missing this one. come on guys, I need that bingo.


Screw you! I do what I WANT! 'MURICA. (Does that help)?
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2717
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gibson22 wrote:
Yinello wrote:
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck I'm too late with the popcorn.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE WHITEZ check

SELF-REFLECTION = CUTTING URSELF check

BUT MY FREE SPEECH hmm still missing this one. come on guys, I need that bingo.


Screw you! I do what I WANT! 'MERICA. (Does that help)?


Hrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm sadly 'MURICA is used by people who actually hate America. xD
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Cactuar



Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crayven wrote:
Seriously the guy has issues that he feels sorry for stuff that he made years ago. Stuff that ironically was actually fun.
And let's not delve into the fact how every group is "sensitive" and must not be made fun off, but at the same time he bashed incessantly men in his strip with the sisterhood.
Yeah..."misguided".

"Hypocrite" would be a better word to describe his older self now.


Or, you know, maybe it's actually a good thing to make it clear that he's changed and understands that the Blaxploitation comic was ::cough:: kind of problematic, instead of alternately hoping that everyone will forget and shouting that "it doesn't matter it was x years ago" when no acknowledgement of wrongness was ever made in the first place.

Unlike some public figures, internet famous or otherwise.

I respect that. It takes character to admit being wrong when you don't have to.

Also, legitimate criticism of privileged groups is not the same as leaning on tired negative stereotypes to kick an unprivileged group while they're down.

It's, for example, the difference between offensive rape jokes like the one Daniel Tosh got in trouble for and the rape jokes told by Hanna Gadsby or Wanda Sykes. Making a distinction isn't hypocrisy when they are fundamentally different things.
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Intervention



Joined: 22 Jul 2012
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck I'm too late with the popcorn.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE WHITEZ check

SELF-REFLECTION = CUTTING URSELF check

BUT MY FREE SPEECH hmm still missing this one. come on guys, I need that bingo.


The free space on that bingo card are the comments about someone unnecessarily heckling from the sidelines, not wanting to participate in actual discussion but wanting to inject their smug self-satisfaction anyway. I've yet to see it not get filled out.

What I've found disturbing about Tat's hatred of his past jokes is the sheer frequency in which he tries to remind everyone that the "new" Tat is actually completely opposite from everything we knew about Sinfest pre-2004 or so. And that was merely the unfunny ranting of some kind of dark, evil side which he has long since learned to control.

Because that's not how people come to terms with new ideals, that's not how he learned to make Sinfest into something which he didn't find offensive. Those old strips are just as much a part of his history as his new strips are. So when he says "I ONLY DID THAT FOR MONEY, FAME, AND TO APPEASE THE DEVIL WHICH LIVES INSIDE OF ME THAT MAKES INAPPROPRIATE JOKES" pretty much everyone who reads it knows he is talking out of his ass.

Feminism doesn't bother me the least bit, him trying to convince us that the old Sinfest was awful and the people who enjoyed it are simply bad influences in his otherwise zen-like fandom tick me right off.

Quote:
Or, you know, maybe it's actually a good thing to make it clear that he's changed and understands that the Blaxploitation comic was ::cough:: kind of problematic, instead of alternately hoping that everyone will forget and shouting that "it doesn't matter it was x years ago" when no acknowledgement of wrongness was ever made in the first place.


That's where I disagree, I don't think he has to constantly remind us that he was "wrong" because I don't think he was ever wrong to begin with. He told a joke that at one time, he thought was hilarious. Does he need to apologize for it years down the line? Why? Because someone COULD get offended by what was otherwise an extremely popular joke that characterized old-Sinfest? We've already established that he is extremely unlikely to make jokes like that anymore. Is he worried about offending us by not apologizing for it?

It once again comes around to the question of keeping a single monolithic comic called "Sinfest" if he is so embarrassed about the stuff he said in this filthy online comic known as "Sinfest".
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Cactuar



Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intervention wrote:

Feminism doesn't bother me the least bit, him trying to convince us that the old Sinfest was awful and the people who enjoyed it are simply bad influences in his otherwise zen-like fandom tick me right off.


I think that's an ...unnecessary interpretation?

You can realize that some of the earlier strips are problematic and still like them.

It's not about the strip being "awful" or people who like it being "bad influences" just.. enjoy the stuff while acknowledging the problematic bits.
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Arthain



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 96

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I'm reading too much into this but I see this as an unsubtle way of telling us Tat no longer cares, or no longer can, make fun of the minority. One of the reasons I loved Sinfest is because it doled out the punches equally to all sides.

If this strip is to be taken as an interpretation of why Tat has changed the direction his strips have gone...

Well I may be finished with Sinfest. The primary reason I liked it because of it didn't pull punches. I guess now I know why it's been focused primarily on attacking the majority and won't touch the minority.

Sad to see one of the last true vestiges of equality on the Internet disappear like this. Equality isn't about making up for past mistakes, it's about treating everyone equally. It's not about right, or wrong, or good, or bad. It's not even about political correctness or fairness. It's about equal treatment.

I saw that equality here in the beginning (everyone had shots taken at them in equal spades), I'm not seeing it anymore, and I guess I know why now.

Unless this strip is some late April Fool's joke...

I bid you all adieu.
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Intervention



Joined: 22 Jul 2012
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cactuar wrote:

It's not about the strip being "awful" or people who like it being "bad influences" just.. enjoy the stuff while acknowledging the problematic bits.


The "problematic bits" were what made Sinfest, that's where the catch comes in. Tat trying to tell us that things like "IT'S MY DUTY TO TAP THAT BOOTY" (I still giggle reading it just because of how hilariously polarizing it is) were actually something to apologize for because he wishes he never told it or that he ever made a comic depicting that because he was misguided?

That's pretty much a slap in the face of people who took the older comics at face value. I don't recall them being about a blooming feminist author throwing off the chains of his old ways or about a deep and introspective character drama and instead remember them being about a world that had no qualms insulting everyone equally for laughs.


Arthain wrote:
Snip


Just where the heck have you been the last 5+ years? Are you acting like this is something new? I'm only repulsed by how he feels he has to beat himself up over this at this point and constantly remind us that the old him was some kind of little kid without a mature sense of humor (which is clearly false reading the old comics, I almost feel that he doesn't get the joke of the blaxsploitation comic anymore and he wrote the bloody thing).
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Cactuar



Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intervention wrote:

Quote:
Or, you know, maybe it's actually a good thing to make it clear that he's changed and understands that the Blaxploitation comic was ::cough:: kind of problematic, instead of alternately hoping that everyone will forget and shouting that "it doesn't matter it was x years ago" when no acknowledgement of wrongness was ever made in the first place.


That's where I disagree, I don't think he has to constantly remind us that he was "wrong" because I don't think he was ever wrong to begin with.

So you see nothing wrong with that strip? At all? Not even the sterotyping and/or appropriation/mocking of AAVE? The devaluation and denigration of which has real consequences for real people in the real world?

Quote:
He told a joke that at one time, he thought was hilarious. Does he need to apologize for it years down the line?

If he has never acknowledged the problematic nature of it before? Yes.

Quote:
Why?

Because apologizing or at least acknowledging wrongdoing is what you do when you realize you've done something wrong or problematic that has harmed or contributed to harming people. If you're not a dick, that is.
The comic is just as accessible as it was 13 years ago. The consequences of it's existence haven't changed, it doesn't suddenly not matter because x number of years have passed.

What are you proposing as the statute of limitations on Acknowledging One Has Done Something Uncool? Should we all just wait it out whenever we fuck up? No one has to take responsibility for anything ever again!

Quote:
Because someone COULD get offended by what was otherwise an extremely popular joke that characterized old-Sinfest?

Because it was a problematic joke which relied on problematic stereotypes. The responsibility is properly placed on the person who made the 'joke,' not the people who were understandable harmed by it's problematic nature.

I'm sorry worrying about the feelings of others is such an impediment to your god given right to avoid thinking critically about the media you consume.

Quote:
We've already established that he is extremely unlikely to make jokes like that anymore. Is he worried about offending us by not apologizing for it?

Just tying up loose ends, I figure. I can understand if he felt it needed to be said.

Quote:
It once again comes around to the question of keeping a single monolithic comic called "Sinfest" if he is so embarrassed about the stuff he said in this filthy online comic known as "Sinfest".

I actually don't think it comes down to that question at all though? Why do you feel like it has to go that far?
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crayven



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 267

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cactuar wrote:
Intervention wrote:

Feminism doesn't bother me the least bit, him trying to convince us that the old Sinfest was awful and the people who enjoyed it are simply bad influences in his otherwise zen-like fandom tick me right off.


I think that's an ...unnecessary interpretation?

You can realize that some of the earlier strips are problematic and still like them.

It's not about the strip being "awful" or people who like it being "bad influences" just.. enjoy the stuff while acknowledging the problematic bits.

I'm sorry but hasn't "being problematic" made it so much fun back then, and so boring and bland now?
This is why a guy talking on TV for 12 hours with a monotone voice about boring mundane things is not fun, and a wacky guy doing crazy stunts and throwing pies in the face of passers-by IS funny.
Things out of the social norm are fun.
Tat has just shown he has caved in to political correctness - and that is the norm. He's not a.."rebel" anymore, he's not asking the dangerous questions anymore, he's not going against the wave - be it good or bad it's up for debate, at least he tried.
Religion? He made fun of it.
Racial issues - he made fun of them too.
Feminism he used to make fun it too.
It was a bundle of laughs and forced us to watch things from a totally different and sometimes unexpected perspective.

Not anymore.
Now he claims that was "misguided".
The same thing brainwashed people, the people who've lost all hope, all raison d'etre say about their once passionate ideals: Oh i was young and foolish".
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