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4/8/2013 - misguided
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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 1160
Location: Behind my Cintiq

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The handful of people saying he needs to cater to some level of politically incorrect inclusion don't get it. You want him to throw stuff in to make fun of people, because it's not EQUALITY if he doesn't? Every person pretty much comes down to, "Hey, screw you and your own individuality as a person! Screw your beliefs! Just be equal! Because what you're doing now I don't like it! Be politically incorrect ON PURPOSE! I don't fucking care if you don't feel like being so! DO IT ANYWAY!"

There's a difference between being politically incorrect when it suits you and what you want to convey and simply hiding behind the freedom of speech to make things not "politcally correct" on purpose.

If you want the latter, go take in ANYTHING. Sensationalist crude comedy has become all kinds of rampant lately. EVERYWHERE.

dasein wrote:
That hit hard. Tatsuya, if you ever read this: Sinfest has grown up with me as a teen to a young adult in the same way that Calvin and Hobbes grew up with me through my preteen years. I can feel the soul in this work.

And as for you children who naively mistake a reflexive awareness of implicit structural prejudices and a sense of hermeneutic justice for mere "political correctness", grow up. If Tatsuya was afraid of criticism as you say, then he would be cowering from you right now. He isn't, so clearly you haven't figured it out.

I love this comment. I agree.

Really all the complaining is so familiar to me. I see it all the time with music. Every time a band changes over time, you get some people complaining that they're not the same while the majority love the new direction. People grow up. They change. When that happens, anything artistic they do will change with them. That's how it works and the reason it's so good. It has to come from the core.

The funny thing about MOST people complaining is that often the people in question are newer people that simply like the older stuff. You have a few old fans that feel betrayed for some reason, but those are the fans that don't understand the concept of artistic process.
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Zhuinden



Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crayven wrote:

I'm sorry but hasn't "being problematic" made it so much fun back then, and so boring and bland now?
This is why a guy talking on TV for 12 hours with a monotone voice about boring mundane things is not fun, and a wacky guy doing crazy stunts and throwing pies in the face of passers-by IS funny.
Things out of the social norm are fun.
Tat has just shown he has caved in to political correctness - and that is the norm. He's not a.."rebel" anymore, he's not asking the dangerous questions anymore, he's not going against the wave - be it good or bad it's up for debate, at least he tried.


Excuse me, but are we reading the same comic?

"He's not a.."rebel" anymore, he's not asking the dangerous questions anymore, he's not going against the wave"? Can you be any more dense?

He's asking bigger questions than just randomly assing around with typical, unfounded stereotypes - he's actually attempting to make people introspect and realize their errors to actually create the so-called "equality" that you speak of. It's not done via offensive jokes - the medium is more refined, and less in-your-face. Did that really make it so hard to comprehend the purpose?

Some themes that have come up, that I'd consider quite important:
-The inequality and objectification of women (obviously) - as guys often see girls merely as in the "girls whom you have to get in a relationship with so you can have sex and that's all they really are, which is why guys and girls can't ever be friends" bullshit
-The lack of freedom of speech - that you can't share your opinion on things without a crowd of haters pretty much attacking you down just because they disapprove of what you have to say
-That people do all they can to harm and demonize others who differ from them and/or are part of a minority
-The people who talk about what is "right" and yet when no one sees doing the exact opposite of it, hypocrisy

And don't tell me the above list is not what the comic tends to be about, and that it's not an important question to ask that goes against typical behavior. It's a rebellion against the evils of the world, by making people see the problems through a somewhat simple and easily accessible form - a webcomic.

If you still believe he's not going "against the wave", you're probably doing something wrong.
(Not to mention, throwing pies in the face of random bypassers is in fact notoriously evil.)
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Intervention



Joined: 22 Jul 2012
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow thanks guys, I go off for a few hours and I got bingo

-Thread being derailed from actual discussion: Check
-Two people making well reasoned arguments get heckled from the sidelines: Check
-A fully-typed out argument of a very serious problem afflicting the comic being REDUZED 2 FUNNY ALL CAPS HA HA LOOK HOW DUMB I AM DURR THAT'S HOW U SOUND: Check


That's it for my card, so where's my refrigerator?

Adyon wrote:
The handful of people saying he needs to cater to some level of politically incorrect inclusion don't get it.


That's not the argument at all, the argument is that he's flat-out saying that the old Sinfest was misguided and this is a better him.

Please address the argument at hand.
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Mr. North by Northwest



Joined: 14 Nov 2008
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as he doesn't stab through his hand with a fork, I'm good.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6042
Location: California

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and you're doing a pretty good job of proving that he's right
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6042
Location: California

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

did it not take the first time? here i'll repeat

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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3315

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, you'd think if you can checklist the responses to what you post realizing people were going to laugh at you relentlessly for being a sexist/racist prick you wouldn't bother posting.

But, you reap what you sow.
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Intervention



Joined: 22 Jul 2012
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. North by Northwest wrote:
As long as he doesn't stab through his hand with a fork, I'm good.


Meh, fair enough.

Cactaur wrote:
So you see nothing wrong with that strip? At all? Not even the sterotyping and/or appropriation/mocking of AAVE? The devaluation and denigration of which has real consequences for real people in the real world?


I see nothing wrong with the fact that he told a joke that he thought was funny, that's part of his history, that's not him being "misguided", that's a point in Sinfest that is just an extremely important point as any other.

If you're really thinking that he needs to "atone" for years of writing cheesecake by apologizing ten more years after the fact, then you must be a sad, angry person. And I doubt that him spending the rest of eternity apologizing for it would ever make you happy.

He's made it clear that he's a different person, he has nothing else to dwell on or feel guilty about. Instead of trying to say sorry for every instance where he potentially offended someone in his comic, he should let it go. Trying to plead with the reader and himself that he was simply misguided and never really believed those things is not the way to properly handle it.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6042
Location: California

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

now you're just making shit up
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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 1160
Location: Behind my Cintiq

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah. I think the idea is...we're fine with what he posted. He doesn't need to "atone" for anything. And that's not what he's doing by this comic anyway! Ha! If you think that's him apologizing for his old ways and begging forgiveness or anything like that, you seriously need to stop thinking. You're interpreting shit that isn't there.
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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 1160
Location: Behind my Cintiq

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a difference between needing to atone and apologize for something and looking back at yourself and realizing your old stuff was immature.
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Zhuinden



Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the new Sinfest.
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2675
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can have your boring bingo. Sinfest Bingo is where it's at.
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Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
Posts: 714

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zhuinden wrote:


"He's not a.."rebel" anymore, he's not asking the dangerous questions anymore, he's not going against the wave"? Can you be any more dense?



Can he be any more retarded?

Who the hell do he think the artist is?

HE'S THE GODDAMN TATSMAN.
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crayven



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 267

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:
Zhuinden wrote:


"He's not a.."rebel" anymore, he's not asking the dangerous questions anymore, he's not going against the wave"? Can you be any more dense?



Can he be any more retarded?

Who the hell do he think the artist is?

HE'S THE GODDAMN TATSMAN.

Can you people utter a phrase without swearing for once. First time i came here i started insulting - shame on me.
Now i came and controlled my every word to not go overboard and i am viciously attacked for - the irony - my freedom of speech.

Also your post is 2/10 funny.
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