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The Complaints About Feminist Sinfest Thread
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a handmaid of the patriarchy I am duty bound to stab you into the submission.
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MerchManDan



Joined: 20 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was stabbed in the submission once. NOT recommended.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had my submission surgically removed as a kid.
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Zhuinden



Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: almost-serious post in a not-serious thread, whoops Reply with quote

Micius wrote:
MerchManDan wrote:
If you sympathize with those who would complain about feminism, we'd all be simply delighted to read a reasonable, well-thought-out defense of them - if you happen to have one ready to go, that is.
I personally wish people would return to the banner of egalitarianism, which is a far older concept than feminism and far more gender neutral. I sympathize with readers who feel Sinfest has been favoring one gender over the other again, this time women instead of men. Let me quote you some quotes:

2013-05-22: Suggests misandry doesn't exist.
2013-05-09: "Kill all men!"
2013-04-17: "Men act like they're on your side, then they turn on you. They turn on you and let you down."
2013-04-12: "KILL ALL MEN."
2013-03-29: "I used to think guys actually respected me... But they don't. They only liked me as long as I embodied some fantasy in their head. They never really cared about me."

Score_Under wrote:
I think this is rather difficult to do. What is feminism?
You bring up good points, feminism means different things to different people. In terms of the comic here, I think it is most important to ask, 'What does feminism mean to Tatsuya Ishida?' Based solely on the comics, I wouldn't suspect that he thinks of feminism as equality between genders.


I think this is actually reasonable. The problem with men isn't that they're men. They're people just like anyone else. The problem is the very concept of masculinity and femininity (and their relation), because they are contradictory to gender equality.
There are numerous harmful gender based concepts floating around. Which is pretty much why I opened this thread.
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Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do have one complaint, though it's more a.. disappointment about the comic, than about feminism in general. I brought it up in another thread, but it was towards the end of the thread's life, I think:

I'm still of the opinion that, unfortunately, Xanth is right . As far as the comic itself is concerned, there is no such thing as a male ally, at least at this point in time. Slick has been shown, repeatedly, to be a crap ally.'

Someone suggested the... ... I do not want to refer to him as "The Gay Guy", but I don't think he's actually ever been given a *name* (which is actually somewhat problematic, when I think about it, but that's ancillary to this discussion!), is a male ally, because he was see doing stuff with Nana. But I'm not sure that proves anything. After all, Nana also gave slick a cookie. I'm pretty sure Nana would spend time with folks even if they weren't male allies.

None of the other male characters have been shown to really do anything feminism wise. They're just... *there*. Crim? *maybe*, but we haven't seen him actually do anything.

And I suppose the fact that *there are no male allies* actually bugs me a bit. I realize this isn't likely to last-I suspect we may (I HOPE) actually see Slick undergo a slow transformation, although with the amount of constant backsliding he does I'm starting to lose a bit of hope.

Eh, I think I'm having trouble expressing how I'm feeling about this fact. It's more that it's just... disheartening? Disappointing? I am having trouble finding the right word. I suppose it is still a complaint, but less of a "RAR FEMINISM BAD OR MEAN OR THIS COMIC ARE THE SUCK I AM NOT COMING BACK" and more of a " Sad "


(( I'm sort of excluding pseudo-insert-Tats because that gets meta and weird, I admit. As the creator the comic, does that count, even if he inserts himself into the comic? If that DOES count, then can't he also be blamed for there being no other male allies, since he's technically more powerful than the god of that universe? Basically, shit gets weird and complicated when we address meta-Tats, so I admit I'm leaving him out for now).
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I get what you're tryingo say - that you want to see yourself represented in the comic? And possibly you want some good role models for actual male allies?
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Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
I think I get what you're tryingo say - that you want to see yourself represented in the comic?


Hah! No, not really, though I apologize if it came off that way.

Honestly I suspect in real life I'm closer to what we've seen Crim do, for better or for worse: I'm not really sure if I *have* taken any major steps to be a good ally. Oh, sure, I've talked on the internet (like folks here!), but... that's to an extent what Slick does, too, so does that really count? I suppose I volunteer at the girlscout camp, but that's really only one week a year... So perhaps I'm not one. =/.

But no, it's more "If Xanthe's argument that there is no such thing as male allies is supposed to be false/taken as false... then shouldn't we be shown evidence that she's wrong?". Because so far, we seem to just be shown repeatedly *that she's right*. Male allies don't exist.
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I'm concerned, feminism never was a war of power between men and women or any other gender. It's a war of power between conformists and those who like change.

It's the reason why I'm not kinda comfortable with the concept of 'Male Allies.' It implies that men can't be feminists by themselves, which alienates. People that want change in unifying genders, races, nationalities or whatever, should stick together.
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there's a lot of alienating things about mainstream feminism
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Racism, classism, homo/trans phobia abound. Sad Feminism should not continue to have these problems. I hope they are in the process of going away, leaving the lovely shiny good parts of feminism separated from the muck.
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Micius



Joined: 09 May 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:18 am    Post subject: Re: almost-serious post in a not-serious thread, whoops Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
I agree with my good friend Micius here in my perfectly serious thread about complaints about feminist sinfest. If women were really interested in equality, they would stop parading me around on a leash and heels or at least uncuff my arms once in a while.

psh, dames
There is serious business to be dealt with on the subject whether you sarcasm or not :U

Zhuinden wrote:
I think this is actually reasonable. The problem with men isn't that they're men. They're people just like anyone else. The problem is the very concept of masculinity and femininity (and their relation), because they are contradictory to gender equality.
There are numerous harmful gender based concepts floating around. Which is pretty much why I opened this thread.
Thanks. That is definitely a thing. I am less concerned with Tats' use of 'dudebro' and more with his direct references to all men though.

Felgraf wrote:
I do have one complaint, though it's more a.. disappointment about the comic, than about feminism in general. ... As far as the comic itself is concerned, there is no such thing as a male ally, at least at this point in time. ... And I suppose the fact that *there are no male allies* actually bugs me a bit. I realize this isn't likely to last-I suspect we may (I HOPE) actually see Slick undergo a slow transformation, although with the amount of constant backsliding he does I'm starting to lose a bit of hope. ... Eh, I think I'm having trouble expressing how I'm feeling about this fact. It's more that it's just... disheartening? Disappointing? I am having trouble finding the right word. I suppose it is still a complaint, but less of a "RAR FEMINISM BAD OR MEAN OR THIS COMIC ARE THE SUCK I AM NOT COMING BACK" and more of a " Sad "
I am left with similar feels. I don't want Slick to be that person; he has a defined character with a useful role in the comic and is more 'real' with his flaws. I would be fine with Crim being that person, but I am happier with him and Fuchsia not getting dragged into those themes or else we'd only be left with a handful of characters that ever deal with anything else.

And just to put this out there, I hope I don't come off as 'RAR.' I only joined this forum because I felt if I could influence discussion, I could positively influence the comics, which I generally enjoy and have been reading for years.
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Usagi Miyamoto



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:54 am    Post subject: extraordinary claims Reply with quote

Micius wrote:
I only joined this forum because I felt if I could influence discussion, I could positively influence the comics, which I generally enjoy and have been reading for years.

Wait, you think Tatsuya actually reads the forums?
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Micius



Joined: 09 May 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:15 am    Post subject: Re: extraordinary claims Reply with quote

Usagi Miyamoto wrote:
Wait, you think Tatsuya actually reads the forums?
I would hope that any creator would take interest in the feedback generated by their creations? Even if he doesn't post or log in, does he really never read any of the posts or skim through the thread titles?
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Sam



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

he reads the forums.

we are not sure of the regularity.

but he reads the forums.
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ShadowCell



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whether he gives a shit about what is said here is a different story.
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