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Sexual Orientation, Gender Identity, and the rest
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TIAB



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 683

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well really, you've got the best shot of being an authority on yourself out of anyone. It sucks when someone makes a statement about you that's just wrong, no matter the reason.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh my god, being told something like that would piss me off so much.

One of the things I learned right away when I first started researching asexuality was that sexuality is fluid. Wrapping my brain around the concept was so helpful because suddenly I could understand that just because I had been attracted to people in the past doesn't mean that I can't be ace now. Same thing about being straight, gay, bi, or pansexual. You can float through them, your preferences do NOT have to be set in stone. Labels are something people use to help conversations happen. When the label doesn't fit, chuck it for one that does.

Sometimes people are very prone to making everything black and white, and I think sexuality just does not lend itself to that at all. I... well okay I guess this explains the rainbow flag now that I think about it.

...

Wow, I can't believe this is the first time I've realized that.

I've just completely lost my train of thought now. Basic point is: That really sucks. I'm sorry you got told that, it was untrue and uncalled for.
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winterflame



Joined: 21 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*random internet hug for being an awesome, non-judgemental, horrible person.*
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*HUGS* Very Happy
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Lasairfiona



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand being an ace. I really don't. I am a very sexual person even when I am not having sex all the time.

However, I am far more interested in if people are happy. winterflame - your partner sounds amazing. Not typical of current society at all (I am hopeful of future society).

Can I defend the "go to the doctor" and the "try it again - it will kick in" statements? *ducks* Other than the friends can rarely offer advice about what they don't know, for those on the more "normal" sexual scale those ideas are actually useful. Go the the doctor is self explanatory (Samsally - your nurse practitioner is irritating to me and that is not cool) but the other one... Many, many times it isn't the sex that is the problem but a person's mental block against someone they had sex with in the past and going through the motions helps. Of COURSE this must be in a trusting relationship or something so that it isn't rape. I think people who would try this wouldn't be actively turned off, it would be more of a "meh" and then you learn that FOREPLAY IS AWESOME! I think many people let their day to day irritations with a partner get in the way of sex - it is quite the realization that you can be angry with your partner and still have sex without that being forgiveness.

It isn't a great defense but that is what I was thinking. Critique away!

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After much deliberation he gave her a giant comfort zone. - Michael
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no idea how to say this in a way that doesn't sound angry. I'm not really angry, just... weary. Your response is pretty much exactly what we've been talking about being frustrated with. I understand that it comes from a position of actually caring though and I do appreciate that.

To put it bluntly: There is no super traumatic life event that made me stop wanting sex. I was put in one vaguely terrifying situation, but it by no means put me off of all sex forever. I know I've got a lot of weird hangups about manipulative asshole dudes and there's the lovely gray area of coercion where I literally did stuff because it was just easier than dealing with the pouty fall-out and you're right. It was more like 'meh' for me and I'd never call it rape. There were also times when I wanted to, I instigated, I thought "maybe this time" and really believed it. Sometimes it managed to be alright? Like, I enjoyed giving my partners pleasure, that was a very real thing. Was I ever once able to get off myself? No. Did I come close? Honestly, I have no fucking clue because I have no idea what to measure it against. I felt things, I wasn't completely unmoved. But it was a mix of bad and good, and more often than not, the bad outweighed the good.

You really stress the 'trusting relationship' thing, but I trusted everybody I was intimate with at the time. I wouldn't have done anything with them if I didn't.

Your argument kind of implies I didn't try. I haven't lived this long, had several partners, and not tried foreplay. I assure you, I've tried many kinds of foreplay, I've tried all the kinks I know of that didn't immediately squick me out (and one that kinda did*). I've TRIED. Countless times, with different people all of whom I trusted completely at the time.

I don't claim to have it all figured out yet. I'm really frustrated I don't have it figured out. I know I've got a lot of shit going on that is probably contributing to my lack of sex drive. Besides the birth control killing my libido, I have anxiety issues that kick up surrounding getting pregnant or stds.

I'm so fucking sick of being told I'm broken, though. I'm sick of being told to get therapy only to find it doesn't do shit, it's just another (expensive) appointment to fit in the day. I'm sick of trying to bring it up to nurse practitioners and having them stare at me like I'm a goddamned freak of nature because it wasn't just the one that blew it off, it's been at least three I've mentioned it to and each as unhelpful as the last.

If it was some kind of sudden drop in sexuality it would make a lot of sense to go to the doctor and see if we could pinpoint a cause, but it isn't. I didn't just stop feeling like I wanted to have sex one day, it tapered slowly over a loooong period of time (literally years). As far as I've gathered, this is why they have no idea what to tell me when I bring it up.

I don't know. I don't know how to finish this and I've been correcting it for over and hour. I'm just going to post it and possibly regret it tomorrow.

*It ended poorly. No, I'm not telling which one. It's more fun to let you imagine the worst.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard pretty much the same arguments about why I should just decide I'm gonna be heterosexual, because queerness is supposedly a bad thing that comes from trauma.
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Lasairfiona



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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Location: I have to be somewhere? ::runs around frantically::

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought to myself last night - I bet my post is going to be misinterpreted. I should update it to be more clear.

Samsally, winterflame, whoever - my above explanations are not directed at you at all.

I was (poorly) trying to explain why it isn't bad to have a person suggest a doctor to those that are on the typical sexual interest spectrum (because as far as I know, ace isn't typical). It might even be a good suggestion because for majority of people a drop in sexual interest is bad (anger at a partner, health problems, - mine it's injury related). But for you, it is tiring. (The trusting relationship part was about me clarifying that I don't advocate rape and wasn't directed at you at all)

I'm sorry I insinuated you were broken. That was not my intent. If ace is your normal setting, that is okay. No one should tell you that you are broken and honestly that is why I expressed irritation with those nurse practitioners. They could have said that it is possibly the norm for you or referred you to someone with more experience (who may tell you it's normal).

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Before God created Las he pondered on all the aspects a woman might have, he considered which ones would look good super-inflated and which ones to leave alone.
After much deliberation he gave her a giant comfort zone. - Michael
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Lasairfiona



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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Location: I have to be somewhere? ::runs around frantically::

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
I've heard pretty much the same arguments about why I should just decide I'm gonna be heterosexual, because queerness is supposedly a bad thing that comes from trauma.

If someone "goes gay" after trauma, I'd put a lot of money on them being at least bi to start with. People don't choose what gender they are attracted to.
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Before God created Las he pondered on all the aspects a woman might have, he considered which ones would look good super-inflated and which ones to leave alone.
After much deliberation he gave her a giant comfort zone. - Michael
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winterflame



Joined: 21 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally: Jesus we have more in common than I originally thought. Chalk me up on the doing things that a partner wants, that you either meh or just flat don't want to because it's easier than dealing with the whining or pouting or whatever nonsense. I also wouldn't call what happened rape, but it did leave a squicky feeling.

Lasairfiona: I appreciate the explanation that you weren't specifically addressing mine (or Sam's) issues. Because gods help me I TRIED the do it anyway, you'll start to like it again thing. Because I got tired of people saying it. And because I felt guilty for 'neglecting' my partner. I never got anything out of it but the feeling vague shame. And he was FURIOUS when he realized what I was doing. Because he didn't want me breaking myself over some stupid misguided notion that he 'needed' sex and it was my job as his partner to give it to him.
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Lasairfiona



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After my sister came out as gay, she told me that she had always hated giving blow jobs when she was still having sex with guys. An erect penis was not appealing to her one bit. My response was "FFS, why didn't you try girls sooner!" Even a mild feeling of disgust or meh is a bad reason to have sex.

Me - hard dick makes me drool. Girls? It is entertaining but doesn't get me off (this may be related to past trauma but maybe not - I think I have always been solidly to the hetero side of the spectrum).

For full disclosure - I love sex but I have a lower sex drive than I would like for many reasons: a) injury so I couldn't have sex at all for nearly six months and it wasn't super frequent before that due to pain - hard to get back in the swing if things after something that intense b) medication lowers the libido and c) long term relationships lose the advantage of being turned on by your partner with minimal or no foreplay - this is the most common reason for the spark to go out of a relationship imho (also lack of time and energy due to kids and whatnot). This is normal and only requires some effort to fix for the typical couple (back to not talking about aces here).

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Before God created Las he pondered on all the aspects a woman might have, he considered which ones would look good super-inflated and which ones to leave alone.
After much deliberation he gave her a giant comfort zone. - Michael
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasairfiona wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
I've heard pretty much the same arguments about why I should just decide I'm gonna be heterosexual, because queerness is supposedly a bad thing that comes from trauma.

If someone "goes gay" after trauma, I'd put a lot of money on them being at least bi to start with. People don't choose what gender they are attracted to.


I know people don't turn gay because of trauma. I'm saying your thoughts on asexuality sound a lot like the thoughts of people who think gay folks are really just confused, hurt straight folks. And you may qualify it by saying that only some asexual people are like this, but the stuff you are saying is so commonly expressed that it is a problem.

Lots of people don't even believe that asexuality exists, which means they don't believe people who say they're asexual, which leads to lectures and unhelpful advice. I don't know if suggestions of corrective rape are common (They certainly are for lesbians), but the stuff I've heard has been unhelpful.

Not everyone knows everything about their sexuality,and some make pitstops with different labels. It is best to accept what they say, since they know best.

Also for the record: I thoughtmaybe I was asexualonce as well, which turned out not to be true. I recognize, however, that is just me, and I don't autoatcally assume my experience fits everyone.
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Lasairfiona



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think asexuality exists but it is really rare. I also think sexuality is far more fluid than society likes to allow - especially straight to bi or gay to bi (or highly sexual to low libido outside of other causative factors such as depression or medication/drugs. Oh! And high libido late in life).

As with any deviation from society's norm, especially a rarer deviation (please note I am using the definition from statistics and not using it as a slur), people like to disagree and stick their nose in where it may not be appreciated.

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Before God created Las he pondered on all the aspects a woman might have, he considered which ones would look good super-inflated and which ones to leave alone.
After much deliberation he gave her a giant comfort zone. - Michael
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

winterflame wrote:
Samsally: Jesus we have more in common than I originally thought. Chalk me up on the doing things that a partner wants, that you either meh or just flat don't want to because it's easier than dealing with the whining or pouting or whatever nonsense. I also wouldn't call what happened rape, but it did leave a squicky feeling.


Even when the guys I was with were trying super hard to be understanding and supportive and helpful, it was always this weird catch 22. Like, either they 1) just wanted to get off themselves or 2) wanted to help me get off. So I was feeling pressured to do things because THEY wanted to do them, but there was also this heavy responsibility of having to enjoy it, too.

Most people that aren't terrifyingly awful people really do want their partner to enjoy themselves. So, it's a GOOD thing they wanted me to enjoy myself, I know that. But "Just tell me what feels good" stresses me the fuck out now because if I answered honestly (some variation of 'uh. not that. not that either. dear god DEFINITELY not that.') it's now all about how -they- are failing to give me pleasure and it's this massive blow to -their- ego. They get frustrated with me because they feel like they've run out of options, there is nothing they can do to make me happy, and suddenly I'm the one that's just not giving in the give-and-take part of the relationship.

It would get really frustrating for me, too, because I could just -give them pleasure-. Giving oral was one of my favorite things because it wasn't about how I felt, it was about remembering what they liked and mixing it up and making them feel good. That was just never enough though because it bothered them I was getting nothing out of it and no amount of trying to explain it seemed to help. Inevitably it always swung back around to "But i want to give YOU pleasure, too" which lead to my discovery that I loathe receiving oral because of the exact reason I liked giving it.

Meeeh. There are people that don't value giving their partner enjoyment so much it ruins the experience when they can't. Finding one that isn't a complete selfish creep is... not easy. I'm just really hesitant to keep looking because I'm so so SO sick of being put in those situations and being made to feel like the asshole because I don't like sex. The fact that you've snagged someone who genuinely wants to do what makes you happy, no strings attached, is really encouraging to me.
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winterflame



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd given up myself until I found him. I don't know where you live. I don't know the people there. But I reserve the hope there is someone there like him, that will be compatible with you and make you happy. Smile
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