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Sexual Orientation, Gender Identity, and the rest
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Finnegan



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 1080
Location: in that cool mountain air, on an appalachian trail

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ennis wrote:
Zinnia Jones is the best.

Zinnia Jones wrote:
Nearly 350 trans women have signed a petition rejecting the transphobia of Calpernia Addams and Andrea James. And you know what? It's pissing off all the right people - drag queens slinging slurs around, cis gays who can't let go of the word "sh*male", and everyone who thinks they can talk down to trans women about "free speech". Here's what that tells me: it's working. Let's keep this going - share it, spread it, sign it!


I'm having a little trouble figuring out what the conflict is here. I just skimmed the articles, but aren't at least two of the authors in question trans women themselves if not all three? I don't think anyone out there really doesn't understand the difference between a transvestite and someone who is trans person. I don't see the harm in transvestites holding on to their in-group lexicon of drag queen, tranny, or shemale. I get that trans women, in particular, would take offense to being called a tranny or a drag queen but in fighting the transphobia they perceive in such things, it seems that they are unfairly attacking and blaming the transvestite community whose members have the right to express themselves even if they are cis het men dressing like women. I don't think the intention has ever been to undermine the transmovement but rather self expression outside of gender guidelines.

If I'm missing something please let me know, but this seems to be another case of over-emphasis and over-sensitivity surrounding labels between groups who should be able to find solidarity with each other.

We should all, of course, make efforts not to gender people we do not know, but until we incorporate more gender-neutral words into our vocabulary it is going to happen and (I'm not saying to stop educating people) it's something we need to be less sensitive about. Unless it is one of those assholes mentioned in your article, most people are preoccupied, tired, and not paying much attention and it is usually an honest mistake- not something to get worked up over. I am misgendered fairly often and usually the person feels so embarrassed over their mistake that I am the one who ends up feeling sorry for them. I know I have no right to tell someone who to feel after experiencing a similar circumstance but instead putting so much of yourself into how other people perceive you and letting it get you upset maybe try taking pleasure in it, like I do, knowing that their confusion means that I am successfully fucking with the gender system and I take pride in that because I view it as a flawed system.
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Echo



Joined: 18 Jul 2013
Posts: 589

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To quote from Ennis' link,

Quote:
James believes that “taboos around language” – language such as “sh*male” – are “practically begging drag queens and kings to violate these taboos”


It's not "over-sensitivity", according to that, because the more offensive the word is, the more the taboo of using it is apparently begging to be violated as some sort of counter-cultural subversive statement. If there was a more offensive word, they'd apparently be using that too.

Whether or not it's self-expression within a particular group is open to question, but it's without doubt a hugely offensive word to a different group. And the reason that the first group use it is *because* it's an offensive word.

There are arguments in favour of trying to break taboos and reclaim words and try to adopt them in a positive manner, but for that to work, it has to come from inside the group that finds the words offensive, which isn't the case here. And I'm not even sure such reclamation is the intent here, when the words are just used to generate outrage, generally for publicity or some form of entertainment. The amount of pain this word can cause to others... it's just not worth using it. And that's not stifling free speech, or undermining self-expression, it's just basic courtesy to others, arguably something in the area of not using the n-word.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6434

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, basically what Echo said.

It's like, I've seen some shit because I'm a woman, but that doesn't mean I get to throw around racial slurs and go uncriticized. My own personal experiences being hurt do not justify or excuse hurting others.
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3551
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Echo wrote:
To quote from Ennis' link,

Quote:
James believes that “taboos around language” – language such as “sh*male” – are “practically begging drag queens and kings to violate these taboos”


It's not "over-sensitivity", according to that, because the more offensive the word is, the more the taboo of using it is apparently begging to be violated as some sort of counter-cultural subversive statement. If there was a more offensive word, they'd apparently be using that too.

Whether or not it's self-expression within a particular group is open to question, but it's without doubt a hugely offensive word to a different group. And the reason that the first group use it is *because* it's an offensive word.

There are arguments in favour of trying to break taboos and reclaim words and try to adopt them in a positive manner, but for that to work, it has to come from inside the group that finds the words offensive, which isn't the case here. And I'm not even sure such reclamation is the intent here, when the words are just used to generate outrage, generally for publicity or some form of entertainment. The amount of pain this word can cause to others... it's just not worth using it. And that's not stifling free speech, or undermining self-expression, it's just basic courtesy to others, arguably something in the area of not using the n-word.



I'm all for courtesy or whatever, but the very act of "being offended" is a choice, it's not some magic unexplainable reflex to a word.



The ability to look at a person in the eyes when that person is saying something in order to hurt you, and just realizing that that person doesn't see the world the way that you do is a sign of personal growth.

There is no reason to be angered at their actions, no reason to worry about them either.

Some people become angry and offended because deep down, they just want the other person to understand their inner feelings; to be understood.

I don't feel that a person who attempts to understand others is easily offended.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10359
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NO ONE ANSWER THY!!

WHY!?!?


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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9501

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you went full thy

you never go full thy
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I started to respond to him, then took a sip of coffee, and was all "WTF am I doing?!?!?"
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Echo



Joined: 18 Jul 2013
Posts: 589

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recommend greasemonkey and a moist, delicious "ignore user" script. Saves you even starting, and protects your scroll wheel too! ;-D
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3395
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
Exciting news! The US ban on Medicare covering gender confirmation surgery is expected to be lifted in a few weeks!

http://www.buzzfeed.com/evanmcsan/hhs-expected-to-lift-blanket-medicare-ban-on-sex-reassignmen

I have been waiting for this news for months, and omg. I really hope they lift it.

One thing that I think this will do, besides helping poor people in states where there is medicare insurance for the poor, is dismantling the surgery requirements for legal document changes. I'm reasonably sure one of the reasons that those requirements continue to exist is because surgery is financially out of reach for so many people - thus providing an enormous barrier for most people even if they want gender confirmation surgeries. With that barrier stripped away, maybe states will reconsider their identity document requirements.


Very Happy If I can get top surgery, I will need advice on new wardrobe, because I will finally be able to get all the cheap clothes OMG.


A number of us will be UTTERLY TERRIBLE at providing advice!

/No seriously my fashion sense is apparently stuck in the nineties.
//What can I say, I really, really like the unbuttoned overshirt look.
///IT'S LIKE I HAVE A MINI CAPE.

In all seriousness though that's *FANTASTIC* news and I really hope they lift that too. (I have non-sinfester I'll have to show that to if that goes through, if they're not following it already!))


You mock yourself, but I do have a mini cape! A black velvet one.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3395
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finnegan, here is the simplest explanation I can come up with:

(Transphobic slur) is something thrown at trans people, especially trans women. It is what people use when committing violence, harassing, and abusing them.

People who dress as women but who don't identify are not getting the same shit as trans people who identify as women.

That's not to say that transvestites and drag queens don't get shit - they do. But it isn't the same giant ball of shit being thrown at trans women while (transphobic slur) is being used.

So when cisgender transvestites and drag queens decide to "reclaim" (transphobic slur), they're asking to use a word that never hurt them, but which does hurt trans women - and they are telling trans women to shut the fuck up when trans women complain about it.

And then these same drag queens and transvestites get asked by the cisgender populace at large what they think about trans issues. These same people who insist on using a word which is associated with real actual harm to trans women - these are the people that cisgender folks want to ask about transphobia.

Does that make sense, Finnegan?
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Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
Posts: 718

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
Felgraf wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
Exciting news! The US ban on Medicare covering gender confirmation surgery is expected to be lifted in a few weeks!

http://www.buzzfeed.com/evanmcsan/hhs-expected-to-lift-blanket-medicare-ban-on-sex-reassignmen

I have been waiting for this news for months, and omg. I really hope they lift it.

One thing that I think this will do, besides helping poor people in states where there is medicare insurance for the poor, is dismantling the surgery requirements for legal document changes. I'm reasonably sure one of the reasons that those requirements continue to exist is because surgery is financially out of reach for so many people - thus providing an enormous barrier for most people even if they want gender confirmation surgeries. With that barrier stripped away, maybe states will reconsider their identity document requirements.


Very Happy If I can get top surgery, I will need advice on new wardrobe, because I will finally be able to get all the cheap clothes OMG.


A number of us will be UTTERLY TERRIBLE at providing advice!

/No seriously my fashion sense is apparently stuck in the nineties.
//What can I say, I really, really like the unbuttoned overshirt look.
///IT'S LIKE I HAVE A MINI CAPE.

In all seriousness though that's *FANTASTIC* news and I really hope they lift that too. (I have non-sinfester I'll have to show that to if that goes through, if they're not following it already!))


You mock yourself, but I do have a mini cape! A black velvet one.


I only half-mock myself. That seriously is one of the reasosn I like it. Especialyl when the wind is blowing.

And oh man I am full of ennvvvy. I need to save up for a nice cloak...
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17172
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a nice hooded cloak has been on my to-be-knit list for literally _years_. i so have to prioritize that.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want a mini-cape, go for a children's cloak. If you're making it yourself, it takes less fabric.

I have one that I got from an SCA merchant, which is denim on one side and faux fleece on the other. It doubles as a (small) blanket. The other one is black velvet, and I was going to get rid of it, but I think I'm going to set it aside in a "Things I'm totes going to wear after surgery" box.
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Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
Posts: 718

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
If you want a mini-cape, go for a children's cloak. If you're making it yourself, it takes less fabric.

I have one that I got from an SCA merchant, which is denim on one side and faux fleece on the other. It doubles as a (small) blanket. The other one is black velvet, and I was going to get rid of it, but I think I'm going to set it aside in a "Things I'm totes going to wear after surgery" box.


Well, I meant full sized cloak.

And ooh. That's a good point. If I have enough money by the time War of the Wings comes around, I may consider grabbing one there-buuut. I also reaallly need a new rapier blade. =(. (.. And to get *back into* rapier).

(Barony of the Black Diamond on this end! =3)
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"No, but evil is still being --Is having reason-- Being reasonable! Mousie understands? Is always being reason. Is punishing world for not being... Like in head. Is always reason. World should be different, is reason."
-Ed, from Digger
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shire of Shittimwoode [Though I do not play anymore.]

Is it the fabric you're having trouble getting hold of? If you can sew, I highly recommend getting a wool blanket from a thrift store and refashioning it. I dunno how committed you are to being totally authentic.


Mouse, what kind of yarn and what colors are you thinking of?
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