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Sexual Orientation, Gender Identity, and the rest
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And Brendan Eich stepped down as CEO of Mozilla Corp.
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm torn on the whole Brendan Eich thing. This article I guess kinda covers how I feel about the situation.

As usual, don't read the comments.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't boycott Mozilla, I don't think that would have helped or sent the right message according to my own views. But I think people, especially the LGBT people affected by Prop. 8 and similar measures around the country, have a right to say that this kind of bigotry is not suitable for somebody leading an organization which strongly advocates for rights and equality.

Eich's donations were working at cross purposes with Mozilla Corp. regarding LGBT equality. It's hard to reconcile a group that advocates for equality and rights being led by somebody who succeeded (even temporarily) in taking some of those rights away. Even as he was working positively within Mozilla to build up and enact their LGBT-friendly internal policies, he was acting in the public sphere to take their legal protections and civil rights out from under them. It's fair to make that an issue when it comes to choosing the right person to head Mozilla and other advocacy-strong organizations.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
Ennis wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
Does anyone have any helpful resources for writing descriptions about androgynous characters? I am writing an androgynous character, but I haven't done that before.

No but I do draw androgynous characters. Is there a particular kind of androgyny you're going for? How you describe, say, Andrej Pejic is going to be different from how you describe Pat for instance. And it depends on who is describing the character too. Like if it's third person subjective, whoever the subjective character is.

I haven't written androgynous characters per se, but I have written pieces where I've tried to make the character as generic as possible or where their identity had to be kept as revealed as possible. I think it really just takes some practice. I've found the biggest issue is pronoun usage. Make friends with 'they'/'them'/'their' singular.


I haven't got a fully formed idea of what they look like just yet. I was just thinking that if we can say someone looks androgynous, that there might be common ways of describing how androgyny typically appears.
This is for narrative description in the third person.

I've been using singular they, and I'm not finding that very hard.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's really difficult because language is so innately gendered. It kinda becomes easy to overdo description. Perhaps frame them as being a contrast of attributes, like having 'handsome eloquence' or something like that.

I think I'm gonna try incorporating an androgynous character in my story today.
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Felgraf



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Mozilla CEO has now resigned:

http://recode.net/2014/04/03/mozilla-co-founder-brendan-eich-resigns-as-ceo-and-also-from-foundation-board/
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*cough* Wink
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Felgraf



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
*cough* Wink


I CN RED GUDZ.

/whoops
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you value your sanity, don't participate in the comments on any of this Eich news. I've been doing that since the story first broke, and it's incredible how many people think that people complaining about Eich's promotion to CEO is actually being a jack-booted thug using the Tools of Oppression the same way Eich did; that Eich didn't do anything to the LGBT people at Mozilla because his actions weren't taking place on company time or with the company dime; that Eich has been bullied by the big GLAAD McCarthyist meanies and his life is now ruined foreverz.
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Usagi Miyamoto



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:17 am    Post subject: just another javelin catcher in the culture wars Reply with quote

Why stop with Brendan Eich?
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: just another javelin catcher in the culture wars Reply with quote

Usagi Miyamoto wrote:
Why stop with Brendan Eich?

Not if us conservatives can out-boycott you!
Quote:
Hello there, Mozilla Firefox user.​

Pardon this interruption of your TruthRevolt experience. Mozilla recently forced its CEO, Brendan Eich, to resign over his personal support for traditional marriage. The firing followed a vicious smear campaign against Eich by dating website OKCupid, in which OKCupid blocked Mozilla users from visiting their website.

We would therefore prefer that our users not use Mozilla software to access TruthRevolt, given Mozilla’s crackdown on political and religious positions held by millions of Americans.
To sign our petition vowing to uninstall or cease using Mozilla, Mozilla users can still click here.

Going forward we urge you to consider a different web browser for accessing TruthRevolt.org.

Here are a few alternatives:
Google Chrome | Safari | Opera | Internet Explorer


This is pretty much why I think the boycott was a bad idea (also there's no way I'm going to stop using Firefox).

At the same time, acting like Eich never discriminated against Mozilla employees is wrong; that past discrimination (working to destroy their right to marriage) is why some of them left or spoke up in the first place. Acting like he is being oppressed for having like, his opinion, man! is neglecting to take into account his actions based on that opinion, actions that did harm Mozilla employees (as well as every other same-sex couple in the state).
Also, acting like Mozilla is simply another company a la Merrill-Lynch or Chevron is kind of fantastically missing the point of Mozilla. They are explicitly political and have organized protests for political issues (see: SOPA, mass spying, privacy, etc.). They have an agenda to protect and promote people's rights, including equality.
Even taking a list of companies where Joe Random Employee donated money is missing the point: Eich was appointed to the top leadership position where he's expected to represent the company to the outside world. If he's "privately" working to undermine their values at the same time, how is that not an appropriate thing to bring up regarding his appointment? His donations were known at least two years ago and he remained CTO without much ruckus, because he was not the CEO. Neither are the vast majority of people on those lists.

Frankly, professionally published commentary neglecting the salient points above and what I've already gone over is something I'd expect from angry threadjackers, not supposedly professional journalists and columnists who are ostensibly paid to produce insightful and illucidating content for consumption to make the issues clear. At this point it amounts to either inexcusable unfamiliarity or willful ignorance.
Non-pro tip to all you pros out there: If you're incapable of writing up something more facts-based, reality-oriented, and relevant than me, some anonymous loser with too much free time, you should really just be handing me your paycheck and column inches.
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fritterdonut



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: just another javelin catcher in the culture wars Reply with quote

Eh, this whole Mozilla debacle just doesn't sit well with me. Can't really explain why.

However, I have also not been involved with Mozilla in any way, nor do I use any of Mozilla's products. I'm an Opera user through-and-through.
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Yinello



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Mozilla debacle is one of those internet fights. There's no middleroad, you're either extreme one side or extreme other side and sometimes it seems like the only way to win is to go watch kitten pictures.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:52 pm    Post subject: Re: just another javelin catcher in the culture wars Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:
Eh, this whole Mozilla debacle just doesn't sit well with me. Can't really explain why.

However, I have also not been involved with Mozilla in any way, nor do I use any of Mozilla's products. I'm an Opera user through-and-through.

You do realize in its current iteration that Opera has essentially become a Chrome cone, right?

I wonder if the MS staffers in charge of IE are throwing a party over this?
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:01 pm    Post subject: Re: just another javelin catcher in the culture wars Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:
Eh, this whole Mozilla debacle just doesn't sit well with me. Can't really explain why.

It's not one of the better ways this could have played out. I'd say what wound up happening is about the second worst.
The first worst is that he stayed at Mozilla, unrepentant, and its partners and contributors continued to peel away, leaving the company without the support and expertise it needs to compete. If Eich had continued to hold his line in the face of this legitimate civil rights issue, it probably would have destroyed Mozilla. Because supporting SSM-bans today is pretty much the equivalent of supporting racist anti-miscegenation laws back in the 20th century, and it's clear which way society is moving.
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