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2013-04-28: Cult of Masculinity
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Geareye



Joined: 21 Mar 2013
Posts: 287

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:


You want to derail like that, reap the whirlwind.


Oh, I agree. People are responsible for understanding what their desires include. In this case, derailing into an topic that isn't valued has a high chance of tornadoes and flamestorms. That's the climate of the sinfest forums and it's fine. People can post whatever they like and others can bash them. With a hammer. Of Caps Locks. In red coulour. And huge font size. Because aesthetic diversity is also important.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3333

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geareye wrote:
Monkey Mcdermott wrote:


You want to derail like that, reap the whirlwind.


Oh, I agree. People are responsible for understanding what their desires include. In this case, derailing into an topic that isn't valued has a high chance of tornadoes and flamestorms. That's the climate of the sinfest forums and it's fine. People can post whatever they like and others can bash them. With a hammer. Of Caps Locks. In red coulour. And huge font size. Because aesthetic diversity is also important.



Aesthetic diversity IS important Very Happy People don't read walls of text, so you gotta add some animated gifs and the like.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3333

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, I may have reacted a bit more vehemently because I currently live a life that has been irrevocably changed and stunted in some ways "because patriarchy, because rape culture and because gender roles". Someday someone like khan will get me mad enough that I spell it out to random strangers on the internet rather than sneaking it into the sinfest secrets thread, but that day isn't today.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3429
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khan wrote:

Stripes, whom I feel I have not hugely disagreed with to date, feminism is literally about equality. There is no wrong quest for it. No one group gets magical significance. Women, blacks (I am canadian. We can say black here), transgender, socialists, etc. All are interested in equality, which is what feminism is about. Academically speaking. Which to me is the primary form. Obviously the goal is to address the most egregious wrongs, but that's not exclusively women. Technically, if you are daring to take the 'lets stick to the worst' scenario, uh, yeah, women are FAR behind lesbians, gays, transgender and definitely behind transsexuals. Not gonna budge on this, period. Women have a more difficult life on average than the average straight male, but they aren't even close to the most fucked over by society, nor do they deserve exclusive support from feminism. The name is in fact misleading. As I said, academically, it is about equality.


Are you saying that lesbians and trans people aren't ever women? There is cross-over. Intersectionality is a thing that exists.

I have no idea what you're replying to. Can you include a quote next time so I get proper context?

khan wrote:

Now, judging by most of your previous posts, I don't think we have a very differing view, and I assure you, I am about as far as you can get from an asshole. Period. However, if you harass those without a voice (bizarrely enough that's men here IN THIS thread right now), then I am not interested I shutting up. Nor are you about to out debate me. Well, who knows! But I highly doubt it.


Gee, I guess i never thought about that ever. Ever. I'm such a mean bully, for not wanting to listen to shit I hear everywhere else in one of the few places it isn't the prevailing view. I should totally just spend hours going over the same arguments again and again, forever because fairness.

You really haven't read much of what I've written. Go back to my earlier threads and see how politely I engaged the opposition.

khan wrote:

See, here is the problem; I stated why I agree with feminism, yet you inexplicably insist that I do not.


Anti-queer people who call people like me child molesters often say they aren't anti gay - but they are. We can tell by their actions, and the things they say after stating they are supportive. You may intend to agree with feminism, but if you say misogynistic things, then you don't actually.

khan wrote:

I believe in equality period, and do not support gender roles period. Unlike most people, male or female, I literally could be the ideal of my gender, like Nique, but would prefer not to. As a result, horrible shit goes on in my life. Under the premise that if I 'fit in', I will be magically happier versus doing, you know, things that actually make me happy.


You're telling a trans person about how awful it is that you could pass as the ideal for your gender? Thanks. That's nice of you. Like really. No, seriously. I mean, that's not patronizing or rage inducing or ironic or really crass of you at all.

khan wrote:

So yeah, as a tall, big, handsome jock-looking guy that loves his nerdy pursuits, also gardening, cooking and art, I end up a social pariah, and worse, people arrange for a trained fighter to 'randomly' assault me. Cuz you know, pacifism is girls and shit.


Hey, that sucks. I feel for anyone who has to deal with gender norms, particularly when those norms don't fit who they are.

khan wrote:

Funny shit? I used to be truly obese, meaning I got my tits groped. So yeah, most women have been groped less than me, despite the fact that I beat the bejesus out of some guys that did it, due t temper.


How the fuck do you know that? It is bad that you were groped, but how do you come to the conclusion that 'most women have been groped less' than you? Do you actually know any women?

khan wrote:

Guess what? I know a woman's pain better than most women. I was a fat borderline retard. I got better on both counts, but I remember being marginalized, even when I didn't deserve to be. I am still autistic now, and even now, my life is made deliberately difficult.


You know the pain of a fat autistic man who doesn't live up to the commonly accepted ideals of masculinity. You do not know 'a woman's pain'. If you did know it, you wouldn't know it 'better than most women.' What happened to you is awful, but it doesn't make you an expert on women's experience.

You piss me off because, while I sympathize with you, I have to sit here thinking about my own experiences with rape and molestation, and the experiences of other people I know. Why you are belittling the horrors of that and the fallout from it - I don't even know.

You would have a better time if you would share your experience and listen to the experience of others.
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Salpta



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Sailing the steel breeze.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linked proof (I remembered it since I was in it) that the Sinfest community supports men against bad gender roles men get locked into. I agree it's rarer to hear from/about us, mainly because the comic centers around misogyny, but the support is there.

The entire exchange lasts through page 19, but starts here: http://www.sinfest.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=402228&highlight=#402228

Nobody can legitimately call the Sinfest community anything but "Open" to gender role issues. As a side note though: If you post like a fucking dickfisted chump, expect to get treated like one.

I liked the comic. I read it as: You may be one of the "Privileged" but you're still a slave. Only when you help those in the pit can you get free yourself.
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John in Tronna



Joined: 03 Jul 2012
Posts: 71
Location: Not in Tronna anymore

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronald wrote:
John in Tronna wrote:
Who says they are all women? They may be all variations of non-straightcismale -- women of any variety, gay people, trans* people, even straight cis- males who perhaps do not achieve an acceptable level of testosterone-soaked masculinity.


Well, okay, but the larger question -- are they Fembots? AIs? WTH? -- remains the same.


Why not humans?

Be the Man as envisioned by the Patriarchy, or be branded (insert your "favourite" slur here) and cast out. Maybe the white pupilless eyes are not indicative of being devilkin or fembot, but of being "othered" to its logical conclusion: "You are not a Person."
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John in Tronna



Joined: 03 Jul 2012
Posts: 71
Location: Not in Tronna anymore

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finnegan wrote:
John in Tronna wrote:
How many widely-recognizable gender- or sexuality-spectrum symbols are there? Pink triangle, rainbow flag, male and female symbols (Mars and Venus astrological symbols) -- I recognize those, I'm not sure I can name any more (other than variations or combos of the aforementioned)


List of LGBT symbols.


Ooo! Thanks for the link.

There's a certain...I don't know...irony? to the Labrys symbol, I think, due to it also being a Greek fascist symbol -- I don't know the details of the Metaxis regime, but by and large, fascists have never been keen on any deviations from the "traditional family roles".
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1055

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John in Tronna wrote:
Finnegan wrote:
John in Tronna wrote:
How many widely-recognizable gender- or sexuality-spectrum symbols are there? Pink triangle, rainbow flag, male and female symbols (Mars and Venus astrological symbols) -- I recognize those, I'm not sure I can name any more (other than variations or combos of the aforementioned)


List of LGBT symbols.


Ooo! Thanks for the link.

There's a certain...I don't know...irony? to the Labrys symbol, I think, due to it also being a Greek fascist symbol -- I don't know the details of the Metaxis regime, but by and large, fascists have never been keen on any deviations from the "traditional family roles".


Has there been a fascism that hasn't regarded (the right kind of) wombs as a state resource and branded baby-makin' a patriotic duty?
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John in Tronna



Joined: 03 Jul 2012
Posts: 71
Location: Not in Tronna anymore

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
John in Tronna wrote:
Finnegan wrote:
John in Tronna wrote:
How many widely-recognizable gender- or sexuality-spectrum symbols are there? Pink triangle, rainbow flag, male and female symbols (Mars and Venus astrological symbols) -- I recognize those, I'm not sure I can name any more (other than variations or combos of the aforementioned)


List of LGBT symbols.


Ooo! Thanks for the link.

There's a certain...I don't know...irony? to the Labrys symbol, I think, due to it also being a Greek fascist symbol -- I don't know the details of the Metaxis regime, but by and large, fascists have never been keen on any deviations from the "traditional family roles".


Exactly.

Has there been a fascism that hasn't regarded (the right kind of) wombs as a state resource and branded baby-makin' a patriotic duty?

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John in Tronna



Joined: 03 Jul 2012
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Location: Not in Tronna anymore

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
John in Tronna wrote:
Finnegan wrote:
John in Tronna wrote:
How many widely-recognizable gender- or sexuality-spectrum symbols are there? Pink triangle, rainbow flag, male and female symbols (Mars and Venus astrological symbols) -- I recognize those, I'm not sure I can name any more (other than variations or combos of the aforementioned)


List of LGBT symbols.


Ooo! Thanks for the link.

There's a certain...I don't know...irony? to the Labrys symbol, I think, due to it also being a Greek fascist symbol -- I don't know the details of the Metaxis regime, but by and large, fascists have never been keen on any deviations from the "traditional family roles".


Exactly.

Has there been a fascism that hasn't regarded (the right kind of) wombs as a state resource and branded baby-makin' a patriotic duty?

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crayven



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 267

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All this talk about porn is bad or whatever.
Reality check: it will be a cold day in a hot place before porn gets banned.
And if you want to see the effects, pick a history book and read about the prohibition a bit.
And that one was about alcohol which doesn't deal with a basic human need.
This one does.

And since not all men can get laid easily, cutting them off from their only release valve is going to have....explosive effects.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6109
Location: California

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh, crayven, still so consumed with hatred for men...
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Jody



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crayven wrote:
All this talk about porn is bad or whatever.
Reality check: it will be a cold day in a hot place before porn gets banned.
And if you want to see the effects, pick a history book and read about the prohibition a bit.
And that one was about alcohol which doesn't deal with a basic human need.
This one does.

And since not all men can get laid easily, cutting them off from their only release valve is going to have....explosive effects.


How miserable you must be that if you don't have access to a steady stream of pornography you will turn into a violent beast.
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Finnegan



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 1080
Location: in that cool mountain air, on an appalachian trail

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crayven wrote:
All this talk about porn is bad or whatever.
Reality check: it will be a cold day in a hot place before porn gets banned.
And if you want to see the effects, pick a history book and read about the prohibition a bit.
And that one was about alcohol which doesn't deal with a basic human need.
This one does.

And since not all men can get laid easily, cutting them off from their only release valve is going to have....explosive effects.


I may be mistaken, I'm not a biologist or anything, but I'm pretty sure men can masturbate without the help of an exploitative porn industry.

and again, not a biologist, but I'm also pretty sure that testicles don't explode if a man goes to long without ejaculating.
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crayven



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 267

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
oh, crayven, still so consumed with hatred for men...

Eh?
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