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MRA 101
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1054

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
Lasairfiona wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
Dogen wrote:
No one's ever given me a Chick tract - I live in the PNW for a reason - but I have found them on the bus. I got a visit from some JW's once... They pretended to need to use my phone and then tried to get me to read the Watchtower with them.


Some stopped at my workplace because they saw me standing there waiting for someone with a key to open the door. First they commented on the library not being open (something like, "Oh, is it not open yet?") - which is something people often come up and ask. And then they asked me if I wanted any literature.

They haven't been as bad as the mormons, though. I've had them corner me at the bus stop because they were getting on the same bus. Also, we have some missionaries living in my apartment complex. We convince the last ones to stop pounding on the door for five minutes only to have new ones show up.

Start answering the door naked. That usually cuts the visit short.


Having an ex-mormon answer the door was a lot more useful. I'm pretty good at telling them to just go away, but when only one person is here and they can't answer the door, it's a problem. We're not allowed to put signs up as far as I know, either.


There are some, not a lot but a significant some, in the Mormon church who are complaining about the missionary approach. We have data that shows it has more of a deleterious effect than a positive one, both in terms of PR, and in terms of actual conversion. Some of us are pushing for missions to be a dedicated humanitarian service and relief effort rather than a be-suited 50's hairbrush salesman approach, but there's a LOT about our structure that is stuck in 50's business ideals. Not surprising, considering that's when most of our current leadership grew up.

So, let me apologize for us. I'm embarrassed by our approach, and I'm sorry it's such a headache. We're doing it wrong. And at least some of us recognize it.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah, I don't mind door-to-door proselytizers. Just calmly tell them they should be ashamed of trying to spread such a morally reprehensible and factually incoherent mind-virus and shut the door on them if they don't leave on their own.

Or invite them in and talk about completely unrelated things, if you have some time to throw away.

Or don't answer the door in the first place and turn the music up to drown out any annoying knocking.

Your call.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, some Mormons are awesome. Smile It wasn't until a few years ago I learned there are actually mormon feminists - and mormons who actually think about their religion and don't buy into some of the really horrible things. I don't think everyone has to agree with me, but seeing examples of folks who are not part of a monolith that wants me dead is helpful.

My only examples before that were either of self-righteous hateful mormons or ex-mormons who hated the church.


I had a friend who was a Jehovah's Witness before I knew anything about them - so I was shocked when I found out a lot of people don't like Jehovah's Witnesses.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

which is why I included "talk about completely unrelated things" as an option
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
It wasn't until a few years ago I learned there are actually mormon feminists


So, I'm terribly curious now. Which Mormon feminists do you know about, and how did you find out about them? (Or perhaps, I should say "us," because it's a fairly small and interconnected internet community.)
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Door-to-door proselytizers don't exist where I live.

Is this a midwest thing?

Southern US?
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DeD CHiKn



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just do like my wife and storm out of the door screaming at them for being con artists/scoping the place out. Don't give them a chance for rebuttal.

Then she calls 311 to have the police do a drive by and question the suspicious people.

It works surprisingly well.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
It wasn't until a few years ago I learned there are actually mormon feminists


So, I'm terribly curious now. Which Mormon feminists do you know about, and how did you find out about them? (Or perhaps, I should say "us," because it's a fairly small and interconnected internet community.)


It was a forum or blg I ran into while researching Prop 8. The writers were upset because jerks were representing them, so they wrote about what they actually lieved and hoped to see the church change ino. It was refreshing.
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CTrees



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once answered the door to what I think were Jehova's Witnesses while I had a pistol holstered in my shoulder rig. It was pretty much, "uh... herehaveabrochure, kthxbye!" Haven't seen any missionaries of any stripe since.

Come to think of it, I've never seen *Mormon* missionaries in my neighborhood, period. Huh.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arc Tempest wrote:
I'll always have fond memories of my Dad interacting with the few Witnesses unlucky enough to knock on his door. He's one of those guys who is long on faith and short on religion, and knows the bible inside and out. The panicked deer-in-headlights looks they would get when he actually started debating doctrine and quoting scripture was priceless.

According to my wife, this was the same strategy employed by her late father. She thinks that he may have even changed the minds of a few of them.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
Rune wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
It wasn't until a few years ago I learned there are actually mormon feminists


So, I'm terribly curious now. Which Mormon feminists do you know about, and how did you find out about them? (Or perhaps, I should say "us," because it's a fairly small and interconnected internet community.)


It was a forum or blg I ran into while researching Prop 8. The writers were upset because jerks were representing them, so they wrote about what they actually lieved and hoped to see the church change ino. It was refreshing.


My money's on that being "Feminist Mormon Housewives," though "Exponent," "By Common Consent," and maybe "Times and Seasons" are all possibilities.

I'm kind of excited you found 'em, whichever one it was. I actually write for fMh on occasion.

Fringey heterodox Mormonism is a thing that has kind of needed the internet to happen, and it's been fascinating watching it happen. Most of the things we talk freely about now actually got people excommunicated only just 20 years ago, feminist concerns very particularly. And things are changing that would have been inconceivable only just 20 years ago. Women gave an invocation and benediction in our biggest, most widely-broadcast meeting for the first time ever, following a letter-writing campaign asking for it. (Though the official PR people have left plenty of room for then to say they were going to do it anyway and the letters had no effect. There's a huge roadblock when it comes to leadership not wanting to look like they're "caving to pressure.")

And the past few years, Mormons marching as a group have participated in Pride parades supporting marriage equality.

We've still got plenty of internal horror stories, like people being denied important participation and ritual for supporting gay siblings, but those stories are also being told more broadly now, and more people are listening.

And it's absolutely fascinating watching this internal history unfold, up close and personal. And it's amazing to see what happens when people choose the deeper doctrines of love and healing over law-hedging rules and homophobia.

Personally, I don't know how sustainable this internal movement is. There are a lot of very entrenched problems, and I don't know how fast or how completely it's even possible for them to change. If we were either a larger, or a less rigidly-centralized group, I'd say we were heading for a schism. We have room in our theology for big revalatory changes from the top down, but the top is so overwhelmingly conservative, and it took 'em until '79 to even let black men participate equally.

I don't know how much room there actually is in the organization for Mormons who feel bound to it culturally, or love particular base teachings, but who don't get along with the current bureaucratic, glacier-pace, immense-inertia trajectory of the organization.

Aaaand that's more than you asked for or probably wanted to know on the subject already, so I'll shut up now.

Except to say that it was actually blogs like the one you saw, and this whole internal movement, that helped lead me to a feminist awakening in the first place. So, yeah, it happens.
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CTrees wrote:
I once answered the door to what I think were Jehova's Witnesses while I had a pistol holstered in my shoulder rig. It was pretty much, "uh... herehaveabrochure, kthxbye!" Haven't seen any missionaries of any stripe since.

Come to think of it, I've never seen *Mormon* missionaries in my neighborhood, period. Huh.


I hope it was a big S&W X-Frame, or something of that ilk. Laughing
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CTrees



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beretta Px4 with an extended magazine. No Dirty Harry fantasies Wink
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fritterdonut



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, JW?
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CTrees



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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