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2013-05-02: Porn Sex
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Arthain



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 96

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zhuinden wrote:

Well, isn't BDSM technically about attributing causing pain and feeling pain with a sexual connotation? There's all sorts of weird crap there, starting from slapping hurting whipping biting choking and whatever else people can figure out. Even with the slogan "But I trust my partner and this is something I enjoy", that's just weird. Why would you WANT to be hurt? And start bleeding? And be in pain? And be borderline passing out due to asphyxiation? That's just ridiculous.


Can someone please prove me wrong about this? I might be wrong, but BDSM seems to be all about torture and pain, disguising itself as the "manifestation of ultimate trust between partners in sexuality".


And this is why you should do research before you talk about something like this. Yes there are masochists out there that like to be hurt but BDSM is NOT about inflicting pain. It's about the thrill of being under the control of another either partially or completely. It's about playing out fantasies you can't get through regular sex. When done properly it's done under very controlled settings with well maintained equipment and done with the utmost care. Pain is used infrequently and is almost always accompanied by some form of relief. You inflict pain so that when pleasure is applied it's even more powerful than normal because there is such a large contrast between the two.

I know I'm missing a lot of it, there's so much to the culture that you can't just condemn it without knowing more about it. In a sense it's actually safer than regular sex because of all the rules, negotiations, and care that's taken in making sure each session goes smoothly. There's more danger in spontaneous table sex with your partner than there is in a proper BDSM session.

Of course there are those that mess the entire thing up and are just out to hurt people or those that refuse to stop even after their partner has let them know they've gone too far. However like the other poster said, the problems in the BDSM community need to stay in there and be dealt with by their own community since they have a far better understanding of the 'real' issues. Everyone on the outside just looks in, sees something they don't like and immediately condemn it without trying to understand or see things from the BDSM point of view.

--

Anyways, I think everyone is again taking this strip too literally. From my point of view it doesn't even have anything to DO with sex. People need to realize Sam and Liberty don't represent people, but ideologies. To me today's strip is about 'Uncle Sam' or 'America' trying to get convince the America that they should 'just try to bend' the liberties they currently have and the American people saying 'screw you go sleep on the couch' type thing.

I believe it's Tat going back to his old political messages and has nothing to do with porn, or female degradation, or anything along those lines. I think some people have their minds too filled with feminism and sexual exploitation and are beginning to see it everywhere, even when it's not the message that's trying to be sent across.
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Dro



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3860

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't say that "their minds too filled with feminism and sexual exploitation and are beginning to see it everywhere" when referencing a strip about watching porn and trying to make the case it is about politics.
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Arthain



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 96

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess, I just have a hard time seeing things from a single point of view. I always look at something from multiple angles and it just upsets me when others don't do the same.

On the surface I'll admit it looks like the basic (Husband watches exotic porn, husband tries to get wife to try it, wife kicks husbands ass) type situation.

But when you realize that Sam and Liberty have always represented ideologies for as far back as I remember them appearing in Sin Fest (and this has been at least 5 or 6 years, possibly even more) I don't see them as 'people'.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1053

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
that just goes to show how normalized the degradation in mainstream porn is.


Right. And, like I said earlier, I don't think it was -just- what was depicted that horrified Liberty, because Sam quite literally indicated that he wanted to put -her- in the position of the woman on the screen. He didn't even think twice about it, even though by his own comment, the position the actress was in was impressively bent.

If any Sinfest character needed to be hit over the head with a clue-by-four...

Though, honestly, what I hope is that Liberty finds the words and the strength she needs to at -least- get him to couples therapy with her. But, to actually stand up for herself that way. There is every indication that the two do care about each other. Their relationship is just mega-broken. Whether it's salvageable or not really depends on whether or not Sam is actually capable of putting his self-invested proclivities aside enough to bring his actions in line with his supposed values.

Ooooh, layers...


Last edited by Rune on Thu May 02, 2013 4:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1053

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arthain wrote:
I guess, I just have a hard time seeing things from a single point of view. I always look at something from multiple angles and it just upsets me when others don't do the same.

On the surface I'll admit it looks like the basic (Husband watches exotic porn, husband tries to get wife to try it, wife kicks husbands ass) type situation.

But when you realize that Sam and Liberty have always represented ideologies for as far back as I remember them appearing in Sin Fest (and this has been at least 5 or 6 years, possibly even more) I don't see them as 'people'.


I don't think you can completely discount the female exploitation context here. There are a lot of social theories that tie imperialism and unchecked capitalism very strongly to patriarchy as being at least very tightly correlated. Do some reading on eco-feminism sometime, if you haven't come across it before. The idea being that one mode of hierarchy that perpetuates itself by exploitation will facilitate and carry over to other modes, and that they breed lines of thinking and justification that carry over between the different types of "other" and out-group exploitation.


Last edited by Rune on Thu May 02, 2013 4:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Zhuinden



Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 290

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arthain wrote:

Zhuinden wrote:
Can someone please prove me wrong about this? I might be wrong, but BDSM seems to be all about torture and pain, disguising itself as the "manifestation of ultimate trust between partners in sexuality".


*snip*


Thank you, that provides great insight. Although it's something i don't need, it's always nice to know there's more to it than that.
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Reader1



Joined: 04 Feb 2012
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
Reader1 wrote:
Rune wrote:
Any man who played that card in my life wouldn't just be on the couch. He'd be out of the house.


And youd be completely justified(unless he owned the house), but we're talking about a comic strip character. he's roughly defined and has a limited past. Hes meant to be a caricature, not an accurate portrait, to be critiqued like a fully cognizant human being with a set and knowable ethos.... plus i never said what he did was "adorable," shoes can be expensive Smile


My out-of-the-house comment wasn't directed at Sam.

It was directed at you, and your ridiculous puppy-dog reasoning. Any dude who plays the, "I can't help it, I'm just a dog," argument card has no place in my life. And even if his name was on the deed or the lease, you can be darn sure I'd hold to and fight for my right to what's mine of whatever life we had. Women have rights involving the marital home in most states, even if they don't hold the purse strings.

Stop making idiotic analogies that equate a gross disregard of a woman's self with a dog ruining a pair of shoes. If that's the way you think, maybe you should take three steps back and do some careful re-evaluation of how you're actually treating the women in your life.


hmm... can't seem to get through to this one. I'll try again. i'm not being serious. i'm not making any claims about gender inequalities or stereotypes. my previous statements have nothing to do with REAL men, they're directed at Sam. Sam is a comic strip character. i'm laughing at said comic strip character because of how out of touch with the REAL he is... and how am i supposed to know your marital status? please stop generalizing my comments that are solely directed at Sam and applying them to what i think of the entire male population. not everything on this forum has to be a gender argument, sheesh Confused
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1019

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reader1 wrote:
not everything on this forum has to be a gender argument, sheesh Confused

...But barring that, what else can be discussed about toasters?
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Reader1



Joined: 04 Feb 2012
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
Reader1 wrote:
not everything on this forum has to be a gender argument, sheesh :?

...But barring that, what else can be discussed about toasters?

...ummmm...hmmm.....uhhhh.......... Ah! we could talk about the comic :) this IS the SINFEST part of the forum right... *looks around* ... right?
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3429
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is plenty of other talk. We talk about economics too, and cute animals. Discussion of gender happens a lot - at least in part because the comic has a lot to do with gender.

If you are talking about a comic strip character, then you are talking. This is different from just enjoying. So if you just want to enjoy the comic without delving deeper, ignore the other conversation that is happening. You never have to participate in a Sinfest forum conversation if you don't want to.[/i]
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1053

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reader1 wrote:
Rune wrote:
Reader1 wrote:
Rune wrote:
Any man who played that card in my life wouldn't just be on the couch. He'd be out of the house.


And youd be completely justified(unless he owned the house), but we're talking about a comic strip character. he's roughly defined and has a limited past. Hes meant to be a caricature, not an accurate portrait, to be critiqued like a fully cognizant human being with a set and knowable ethos.... plus i never said what he did was "adorable," shoes can be expensive Smile


My out-of-the-house comment wasn't directed at Sam.

It was directed at you, and your ridiculous puppy-dog reasoning. Any dude who plays the, "I can't help it, I'm just a dog," argument card has no place in my life. And even if his name was on the deed or the lease, you can be darn sure I'd hold to and fight for my right to what's mine of whatever life we had. Women have rights involving the marital home in most states, even if they don't hold the purse strings.

Stop making idiotic analogies that equate a gross disregard of a woman's self with a dog ruining a pair of shoes. If that's the way you think, maybe you should take three steps back and do some careful re-evaluation of how you're actually treating the women in your life.


hmm... can't seem to get through to this one. I'll try again. i'm not being serious. i'm not making any claims about gender inequalities or stereotypes. my previous statements have nothing to do with REAL men, they're directed at Sam. Sam is a comic strip character. i'm laughing at said comic strip character because of how out of touch with the REAL he is... and how am i supposed to know your marital status? please stop generalizing my comments that are solely directed at Sam and applying them to what i think of the entire male population. not everything on this forum has to be a gender argument, sheesh Confused


I didn't say anything about my own current marital status.

I think we might just be talking past each other here.

It was your, "to be fair" segue that really got me. No, it's not being "fair" to Sam to call him a clueless dog. That may be what he's acting like, but going with that argument just plays into stupid self-depreciating ploys that male culture pulls to justify and excuse what is, under any rational light, indefensibly selfish human behavior. He can be better than that. Maybe he won't, because he's a cartoon character and he does what Tat needs him to do for the story and its points, but if he is just a dog then why the heck care about him at all? If he is just a dog, then I -am- rooting for Liberty to kick his ass out and go have an affair with Sweden or something.
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Reader1



Joined: 04 Feb 2012
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
There is plenty of other talk. We talk about economics too, and cute animals. Discussion of gender happens a lot - at least in part because the comic has a lot to do with gender.

If you are talking about a comic strip character, then you are talking. This is different from just enjoying. So if you just want to enjoy the comic without delving deeper, ignore the other conversation that is happening. You never have to participate in a Sinfest forum conversation if you don't want to.[/i]


true but if you make a post someone might comment on it. if that happens: someone responds to what you said, quotes you, or calls you out on a post, you're sort of obliged to respond back... case in point ^^^. i like to talk about the strip and what direction tat might head in next. if that leads to some related topic thats fine too, i generally like to hear other people's viewpoints. usually i don't mind extrapolated conversations until people either start bringing their personal issues on here or get out their soapboxes. i don't particularly like being hit over the head with a person's soapbox, even if i mostly agree with them. also, if these kind of conversations become too common then the posts directly talking about the comic become marginalized (it tends to happens around pg 3) and i'm not sure i like that either...
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2760
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
Reader1 wrote:
not everything on this forum has to be a gender argument, sheesh Confused

...But barring that, what else can be discussed about toasters?


You know that when we start on toasters, things REALLY become serious business. What have you done Leohan!?
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aboutwhistles



Joined: 28 Oct 2012
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I vote for liberty to go have an affair with Sweden!
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Geareye



Joined: 21 Mar 2013
Posts: 281

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:


He can be better than that. Maybe he won't, because he's a cartoon character and he does what Tat needs him to do for the story and its points, but if he is just a dog then why the heck care about him at all? If he is just a dog, then I -am- rooting for Liberty to kick his ass out and go have an affair with Sweden or something.


I am not sure that he can. The fact that he is a cartoon character doesn't only mean that Tat determines what he will do, in order to further his story and points, but also what he can do. Sam is a personification of the captialistic/imperialistic/pro-consume_everything culture of America. Having that in mind I think it is quite possible he is genuinely incapable of change, just like said idelogogies he represents are bound to fuck people up.

Why Liberty stays with him, is of course a valid question. Maybye, like the nation of U.S.A. it's his many resources...his great promises...his kick-ass missles...or maybye Liberty is too trusting/hopeful for her own good.

Alas, poor Liberty....[/i]
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