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2013-05-04: Zero Dark Liberty
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1055

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To the strip itself, if I was Liberty, I'd be effing SCARED right now. Sam has already proved that he doesn't listen to her, that he prioritizes his own perspective, and he isn't interested in making any changes to his behavior for her sake. He has just recently been pressuring her to have sex like he sees in porn. He has now verbally indicated that he's twisted himself around to believe that what torture porn depicts is "what women want," with all the violation that implies.

I'm starting to worry that it's actually going to take Sam attempting rape on Liberty to get him to wake up and realize just how bad he's gotten. That it will take that look of tears and terror on her face, directed only and solely at him, to be the shock of cold water that snaps him out of his dangerously self-centered blind idiocy, and make him realize with raw clarity what he's doing.

And ain't no way Liberty is sticking around after that kind of direct violation. Not the character, not the metaphor. Sam won't even be able to pretend that he's been caring for her.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3429
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She may not even realize it then. Sad
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Dark Blue



Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 9
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are Sam and Liberty in any way metaphors for conservative and liberal Americans? Myself I'm from Europe, I'm just guessing. Does Tat ever address politics in his comics, maybe things foreigners don't notice?
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tricksterson



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 470

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's more that Sam is America as it is and Liberty is America's ideals.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1055

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam is definitely a characature of the US's current political climate. And Tat does tend to lean towards liberal, but I wouldn't say that Sam/Liberty is a direct Conservative/Liberal party analogy. There are Dems who, in word or deed, support the current "Sam" trajectory, and there are (whether some would believe it or not) conservatives who are disgusted with the "Sam" excesses.

And who doesn't love Liberty? I mean, she's nice and compassionate, and just all around pretty great.
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Dark Blue



Joined: 02 Jan 2013
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Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Rune Smile
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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 2017
Location: im probably asleep right now

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
I'm starting to worry that it's actually going to take Sam attempting rape on Liberty to get him to wake up and realize just how bad he's gotten. That it will take that look of tears and terror on her face, directed only and solely at him, to be the shock of cold water that snaps him out of his dangerously self-centered blind idiocy, and make him realize with raw clarity what he's doing.


Oh... oh noo.... oooohhhh nooooo.... Somehow I get the feeling even then, he'd place the blame somewhere else.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1055

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miss Magenta wrote:
Rune wrote:
I'm starting to worry that it's actually going to take Sam attempting rape on Liberty to get him to wake up and realize just how bad he's gotten. That it will take that look of tears and terror on her face, directed only and solely at him, to be the shock of cold water that snaps him out of his dangerously self-centered blind idiocy, and make him realize with raw clarity what he's doing.


Oh... oh noo.... oooohhhh nooooo.... Somehow I get the feeling even then, he'd place the blame somewhere else.


Ack, ack, ack, noooooooo! Someone get the Sisterhood on standby, STAT!
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Arthain



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 96

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read this thread and it really makes me upset.

This thread has become very poisonous. If you disagree with someone, fine, disagree with them. But shouting, insulting them, attacking them in any way is not the right way to approach the situation. You're just turning this thread into a toxic dump for anyone who has even the slightest variation of opinion. You NEVER attack the person in an argument, you refute their argument by using facts and examples. If you need to attack someone then it means your argument isn't strong enough to stand on its own.

That goes for ALL sides.

I almost don't even want to post anymore in this thread because I'm afraid that if I say even the slightest thing 'wrong' or 'anything that doesn't automatically condemn Sam and nominate Liberty for sainthood' I'll be verbally attacked.

Do I think Sam is wrong? It's hard to say. Torture is wrong, but if by torturing 1 person you save a million? Can you say it's wrong anymore? Of course the US government has definitely abused it in the past, and probably still does, but that's a different point.

What I'm getting from this strip is that Sam and Liberty are at odds with each other. America Politics vs American Ideals. All you need to do is read the media and see all the proposed changes to the amendments and the horrible things the American Government is doing to see the examples of this.

On the surface the strip talks about BDSM porn and his failing relationship with Liberty but if you don't dig deeper into what it's really trying to portray, you're not doing the strip justice. Sinfest has almost always had two messages in its strips. A very shallow surface message for the regular reader to just laugh at, and a deeper underlying message. The latter is what I feel Tat is actually trying to get across in his strips.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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Location: California

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Torture is wrong, but if by torturing 1 person you save a million? Can you say it's wrong anymore?


yes.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6560

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like "swoops in at the ass end of an argument to tell everybody in the thread that they're wrong and should feel bad" would go good on the bingo card if we could condense it a little.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1055

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
I feel like "swoops in at the ass end of an argument to tell everybody in the thread that they're wrong and should feel bad" would go good on the bingo card if we could condense it a little.


Hah. Smile

Swoop-scolder?
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
Quote:
Torture is wrong, but if by torturing 1 person you save a million? Can you say it's wrong anymore?


yes.


Even if that man was trying to end you or your families life before being tortured?
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Torturing people is wrong. This shouldn't be a hard concept.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arthain wrote:

This thread has become very poisonous. If you disagree with someone, fine, disagree with them. But shouting, insulting them, attacking them in any way is not the right way to approach the situation. You're just turning this thread into a toxic dump for anyone who has even the slightest variation of opinion. You NEVER attack the person in an argument, you refute their argument by using facts and examples. If you need to attack someone then it means your argument isn't strong enough to stand on its own.

That goes for ALL sides.


Wrong forum for pearl clutching fuckface.
Quote:

I almost don't even want to post anymore in this thread

Good, dont. In fact if that weak ass torture arguement is an indicator of your moral character, don't post anymore in this forum, you'll just get flamed
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