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Bitcoins! Cargo Cult Economy of the Future!
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Law of Pants should be something you can use to win Battles of Bulges.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thy Brilliance wrote:
http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/28/investing/bitcoin-cyprus/index.html

hi hi.

The bitcoin exchange isn't going anywhere btw.


Erm, isn't the entire point of what everyone has said that bitcoin are a commodity backed by nothing, that people in the know can use to artificially inflate, and then crash the market over and over again in order to make money while sticking new arrivals with expensive purchases?

I'm pretty sure it is. I'm also pretty sure the bitcoin exchange isn't going anywhere. There's an endless stream of people who are actually stupid with money and think they're particularly clever to invest in it.
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You misunderstand.

My point is that the Euro market is so unstable/bankrupt/etc, that despite all its flaws, bitcoin is a serious consideration for Southern European countries.

It's also not backed up by nothing because you can't figure out what it is backed by, it is simply that the interaction is more complex than a game of Pelmanism.

And also, fuck day traders. Long term investing is what stimulates the economy, not those assholes.
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Snorri



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thy Brilliance wrote:
You misunderstand.

My point is that the Euro market is so unstable/bankrupt/etc, that despite all its flaws, bitcoin is a serious consideration for Southern European countries.


Price surge =/= serious consideration.

If the stability of the Euro was as uncertain as that article suggest the price of bitcoins would be far higher.


Also fuuuuuuuuuck that article is full of stupid.



Quote:
It's also not backed up by nothing because you can't figure out what it is backed by, it is simply that the interaction is more complex than a game of Pelmanism.

And also, fuck day traders. Long term investing is what stimulates the economy, not those assholes.


It is most certainly backed up by nothing. Aside from idiots converting electricity into heat I guess...

And I'm still not entirely sure why almost everyone is treating this CURRENCY as an investment instead of a currency.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If the stability of the Euro was as uncertain as that article suggest the price of bitcoins would be far higher.


If the stability of the euro even approximated the instability of the bitcoin, then you'd have a lot more concern on your mind over whether you can download the blockchain in time to get your rent in. You'd want to be stocked on canned food and batteries instead.
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snorri wrote:
And I'm still not entirely sure why almost everyone is treating this CURRENCY as an investment instead of a currency.


Because Bitcoin's volatility makes it completely fucking useless as a currency.

I buy a pound of coffee for 0.1 BTC when BTC is @$250USD - that's all good... until the market crashes to $100. Which means if the merchant didn't cash out to USD relatively immediately, he just lost 50% of his money, assuming he can't or doesn't want to buy everything in BTC.

Pretty much as long as buying groceries, paying rent, and paying for gas continue to be payed in fiat currency, Bitcoin is essentially useless as a medium for trade.
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Dennis J. Squidbunny



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey, Thy, let's just hug this shit out.
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fritterdonut



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/06/net-us-bitcoin-regulation-idUSBRE9450Y520130506

Quote:
(Reuters) - The top U.S. derivatives regulator is considering whether the Bitcoin virtual currency should be subject to its rules, a top official at the agency said.

Bart Chilton, one of five commissioners at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, said he had asked staff to explore whether consumers needed more protection from any mishaps with Bitcoin, whose value collapsed last month.

"Here's what I know for sure: we could regulate it if we wanted. That is very clear," Chilton told Reuters in an interview on Monday. The Financial Times was first to report on Chilton's plans.

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Thy Brilliance



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:45 am    Post subject: niche market etc etc etc Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:
Snorri wrote:
And I'm still not entirely sure why almost everyone is treating this CURRENCY as an investment instead of a currency.


Because Bitcoin's volatility makes it completely fucking useless as a currency.

I buy a pound of coffee for 0.1 BTC when BTC is @$250USD - that's all good... until the market crashes to $100. Which means if the merchant didn't cash out to USD relatively immediately, he just lost 50% of his money, assuming he can't or doesn't want to buy everything in BTC.

Pretty much as long as buying groceries, paying rent, and paying for gas continue to be payed in fiat currency, Bitcoin is essentially useless as a medium for trade.


That's funny, there seems to be people at Forbes who say otherwise.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timothylee/2013/04/12/bitcoins-volatility-is-a-disadvantage-but-not-a-fatal-one/
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Thy Brilliance



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:52 am    Post subject: I sure do love chaos. Reply with quote

Also btw, bitcoin copycats are popping up.

http://litecoin.org/

What do you think?
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that there will always be people willing to talk bitcoin up because they have a "government BAAAAAD" ideology that is vested in something like this working.

I think that even people who write for forbes can let such an ideology color their judgement on what is and isn't a good investment, and the article you linked was heavy on what COULD MAYBE happen with bitcoin and light on what it is right now.


It all also disregards what happens should someone actually figure out how to crack into the mining code and tinker with it. Pretending a piece of code is somehow untamperable is a big problem with the bitcoin craze.
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/06/net-us-bitcoin-regulation-idUSBRE9450Y520130506

Quote:
(Reuters) - The top U.S. derivatives regulator is considering whether the Bitcoin virtual currency should be subject to its rules, a top official at the agency said.

Bart Chilton, one of five commissioners at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, said he had asked staff to explore whether consumers needed more protection from any mishaps with Bitcoin, whose value collapsed last month.

"Here's what I know for sure: we could regulate it if we wanted. That is very clear," Chilton told Reuters in an interview on Monday. The Financial Times was first to report on Chilton's plans.

And that's exactly the right agency for the job because bitcoins are a commodity, not a currency in the usual sense of the word. Their very commodity nature makes them terrible as a currency, especially since they're not real products being traded in bulk between nations like huge shares of wheat or soy. Speculation has their price way too volatile (partly because of the lack of regulation that has so many championing it) to be useful like a dollar or even a Cardiff taff.
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
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Location: Hedonism

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: I sure do love chaos. Reply with quote

Thy Brilliance wrote:
Also btw, bitcoin copycats are popping up.

http://litecoin.org/

What do you think?


The vast majority of alternate coins out there, Litecoin, PPC, NameCoin, Terracoin, Feathercoin, etc are premined.

Which means as soon as they get any kind of traction in the market the original creator of the currency will just mass sell it into the ground.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: niche market etc etc etc Reply with quote

Thy Brilliance wrote:
That's funny, there seems to be people at Forbes who say otherwise.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timothylee/2013/04/12/bitcoins-volatility-is-a-disadvantage-but-not-a-fatal-one/


That's not a person "at forbes." that is a blog contributor to forbes, where forbes hosts an extremely wide and wild variety of opinions. He also contributes to Reason.com and is in a scholar program at Cato. The idea that he's selling up his bitcoin piggybank is entirely predictable. Entirely.

Regardless, let's see what arguments he is offering in support of Bitcoin!

Quote:
The marginal costs of adding an additional customer to a VPN service is low. Which means that even a severe short-term drop in Bitcoin’s value is unlikely to be harmful to a Bitcoin vendor. The vendor will just take some losses on the day of the crash and change prices to reflect the new exchange rate the next day.


Quote:
A similar point applies to underground ventures like drug dealing. The inherent riskiness of selling an illegal product means that the product generally comes with a large markup. If Bitcoin offers drug dealers other advantages—like anonymity and better protection against asset seizures—they’re not likely to be phased by the occasional Bitcoin price plunge.


Quote:
Online gambling, for example, is all about bearing risk for the fun of it. If you’re putting your cash on a virtual roulette wheel, the volatile exchange right might only add to the excitement. Similarly, people have begun using Bitcoin as a way to tip people on reddit. Here too, it’s hard to see any harm from a fluctuating exchange rate.


literal lol

"Bitcoin ain't so bad! Vendors can eat losses and change prices every day based on stock value! Underground Ventures will put up with it because it's more important that they not get caught dealing drugs or child porn or whatever, so they deal! And why do we consider the extreme fluctuations to be a bad thing, huh? What if it's gambling money anyway? WHAT IF SOMEONE'S INTO THAT."

that is one of the more tortured defenses of bitcoin
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any time you compare using a currency to gambling in a casino, the case for that "currency" is pretty much dead.
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