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Bitcoins! Cargo Cult Economy of the Future!
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9459

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean he did make a few salient points, he just is not understanding what having to rely on those points means.

- If you are a VPN vendor and you don't mind getting shit on by a price crash that makes you have to eat the difference and update your vendor prices every day, you won't mind bitcoin's instability!

- If you are dealing in illicit goods that require total anonymity, like drugs, child pornography, kidneys, trafficked underage pattayan girls, whatever, then you are totally willing to put up with the various security and stability concerns of bitcoin in trade for anonymous transactions!

- If you literally don't mind that the currency you are making gambling trades with is itself a gamble, you won't mind that your savings are invested in shit which can halve in value in the span of a few hours!

wait this is the argument in favor of bitcoin, right?
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Finnegan



Joined: 01 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
If you are dealing in illicit goods that require total anonymity, like drugs, child pornography, kidneys, trafficked underage pattayan girls, whatever, then you are totally willing to put up with the various security and stability concerns of bitcoin in trade for anonymous transactions!


I don't know much about this, never cared enough to bother finding anything out, but still generally thought that this is all pretty fucking stupid. But now you're telling me I can by drugs on the internet with these things? are we talking like knock-off prescription drugs from central asia? or are legitimate drug dealers (and by legitimate I guess I mean not legitimate) accepting these things as online payment? I'm having some trouble believing that but if, I don't know, you wanted to point me to a site like that in order to prove me wrong, I might glance it over.

seriously though, this all seems pretty stupid and what pisses me off the most about it is that it's no more stupid than our actual currency. it's all just worthless stuff that just because we all agree it has value it suddenly does. the stock market is even worse. it's not like I have any ideas of a better way to do things but the greed a chunk of metal or a slip of paper inspires just disgusts me.
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 12084
Location: Unknown Kaddath

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finnegan wrote:
seriously though, this all seems pretty stupid and what pisses me off the most about it is that it's no more stupid than our actual currency.

Yes it is. Our currency has the full power and backing of the US government and its institutions, including the military. A not insignificant part of that power is the power to regulate commerce (including commodities markets and derivatives) regardless of the currency being used, which lends the US dollar a lot of its stability (though it's far from the only thing; see the full power and military bits). It's also controlled by people who know what the fuck they're doing, unlike bitcoin. Yes, even considering the huge financial meltdown of 2007-2008. The sheer amount of national commitment, totally leveraged by pretty much everything in the US and almost as much stuff abroad, makes our money Double Einstein compared to bitcoin's Homer Simpson.
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 1154
Location: Hedonism

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finnegan wrote:
Sam wrote:
If you are dealing in illicit goods that require total anonymity, like drugs, child pornography, kidneys, trafficked underage pattayan girls, whatever, then you are totally willing to put up with the various security and stability concerns of bitcoin in trade for anonymous transactions!


I don't know much about this, never cared enough to bother finding anything out, but still generally thought that this is all pretty fucking stupid. But now you're telling me I can by drugs on the internet with these things? are we talking like knock-off prescription drugs from central asia? or are legitimate drug dealers (and by legitimate I guess I mean not legitimate) accepting these things as online payment? I'm having some trouble believing that but if, I don't know, you wanted to point me to a site like that in order to prove me wrong, I might glance it over.

seriously though, this all seems pretty stupid and what pisses me off the most about it is that it's no more stupid than our actual currency. it's all just worthless stuff that just because we all agree it has value it suddenly does. the stock market is even worse. it's not like I have any ideas of a better way to do things but the greed a chunk of metal or a slip of paper inspires just disgusts me.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road_(marketplace)

Quote:
As of March 2013, the site had 10,000 products for sale by vendors. 70% were drugs[16] that are considered contraband in most jurisdictions.[10] 340 varieties of drugs are sold,[9] including heroin,[17] LSD, and cannabis.[5][18]

The site's terms of service say that they prohibit the sale of "anything who's purpose is to harm or defraud."[9] These include child pornography, stolen credit cards, assassinations and weapons of mass destruction.[16][19]


The fact that they specifically have to ban assassinations and WMD's is rather amusing. I guess money can buy you everything.

edit: parentheses broke the fucking wikipedia link.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah Silk Road is such a large part of bitcoin right now that anything that really seriously hit silk road would also impact bitcoin to the extent that it is (i believe) the largest single price impacting factor for this 'currency'
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You act as if vendors never benefit from a price jump sam.

If you don't like bitcoins, there's a simple answer available to you: don't use them.

Why make a fuss about it?
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because it's fun to mock people.
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Arc Tempest



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Especially libertarians.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And people who put so much faith in something that was basically known as "hacker money".
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh snap! The "if you don't like it, don't do it" defense! That hasn't been seen since the Iran hostage crisis of 1979, when Carter aide Hamilton Jordan unsuccessfully tried to convince the hostage takers that "if [they] don't like America, just don't come here."

We've got a trained negotiator up in here.



Monkey's right, it is fun.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen...I am your father...look into your heart, you know it to be true.


Turn with me to the snark side and together we will rule the galaxy.
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 2:38 am    Post subject: you don't even know how much snark I'm capable of Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Oh snap! The "if you don't like it, don't do it" defense! That hasn't been seen since the Iran hostage crisis of 1979, when Carter aide Hamilton Jordan unsuccessfully tried to convince the hostage takers that "if [they] don't like America, just don't come here."

We've got a trained negotiator up in here.



Monkey's right, it is fun.


Certainly an invisible hand is a more apt metaphor, no?
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Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
Posts: 707

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 2:50 am    Post subject: Re: you don't even know how much snark I'm capable of Reply with quote

Thy Brilliance wrote:
Dogen wrote:
Oh snap! The "if you don't like it, don't do it" defense! That hasn't been seen since the Iran hostage crisis of 1979, when Carter aide Hamilton Jordan unsuccessfully tried to convince the hostage takers that "if [they] don't like America, just don't come here."

We've got a trained negotiator up in here.



Monkey's right, it is fun.


Certainly an invisible hand is a more apt metaphor, no?


Don't Invisible hands, among other things, sort of assume rational actors? That is, require them, if one is attempting to argue that it will push the marketplace towards the best outcome?

Humans are REALLY BAD at being those in aggregate.
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Thy Brilliance



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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 2:56 am    Post subject: Re: you don't even know how much snark I'm capable of Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:
Don't Invisible hands, among other things, sort of assume rational actors?


Not at all.

The motivations; the needs; the desires of an individual are not necessarily rational.

Something like the invisible hand would still apply in those cases.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, an invisible hand would have been a great metaphor for something. Except I wasn't making a metaphor, I was just making fun of you for saying something silly to Sam. If you see a bunch of people doing something stupid, and rationalizing it poorly, you're free to comment on the phenomenon.
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