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Wonder Woman petition on Change.org!
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Snorri



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finnegan wrote:
TIAB wrote:
If they really wanted her to be an accurate Amazon, she'd need a mastectomy.


that's actually a myth, a widely perpetuated myth, but untrue none the less.


Technically everything about the Amazons is a myth.
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Finnegan



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, I was hesitant to post that for this very reason so I did a google search first and it seems that, while much of the popular knowledge about them is based on myth, they actually did exist in at least some incarnation.
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Snorri



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finnegan wrote:
yeah, I was hesitant to post that for this very reason so I did a google search first and it seems that, while much of the popular knowledge about them is based on myth, they actually did exist in at least some incarnation.


Well warrior women existed. But that's a far cry from an Amazon society as portrayed in the myths.
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TIAB



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of what is understood of Amazons is myth. Do you mean to say that there aren't any accounts from that time period saying that they had that practice?

Edit: and I'm slow with the typing today.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always wondered about the mastectomy thing. It seems like a pretty big surgery for a time period that was not well known for people surviving surgeries. I guess it just adds to their badassery, myth or not.
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Finnegan



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Amazons" as we know them are a myth and that why I was only willing to go as far as to say that they "did exist, in at least some incarnation."
There was a tribe in ancient greece that was a matriarchal society and known for their fierce women warriors. they were not called "amazons", I didn't see any indication that they were such man-haters that they
essentially only captured men to use as breeding stock, that they killed their male infants, or that they cut off their right breasts to improve their archery.
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Snorri



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
I always wondered about the mastectomy thing. It seems like a pretty big surgery for a time period that was not well known for people surviving surgeries. I guess it just adds to their badassery, myth or not.


Yeah it would be crazy dangerous to do it. Also, it makes no sense as it's perfectly possible to shoot arrows despite having breasts.


Quote:
There was a tribe in ancient greece that was a matriarchal society and known for their fierce women warriors.


Which tribe?
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snorri wrote:
Samsally wrote:
I always wondered about the mastectomy thing. It seems like a pretty big surgery for a time period that was not well known for people surviving surgeries. I guess it just adds to their badassery, myth or not.


Yeah it would be crazy dangerous to do it. Also, it makes no sense as it's perfectly possible to shoot arrows despite having breasts.


Quote:
There was a tribe in ancient greece that was a matriarchal society and known for their fierce women warriors.


Which tribe?


The story probably came because big boobs can interfere with archery..in a kind of painful fashion so they likely primitive sports bra'd the suckers by wrapping their chest.
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Finnegan



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snorri wrote:
Which tribe?


possibly the Scythian-Sarmatians. I don't think they were matriarchal but women seemed to be seen as just as capable as men and could become soldiers/ warriors. much of the myth is probably based on this.

also there were, not tribes so much, but "amazon cults" that sprung up from time to time which had some of the elements later myths were based on.

I wasn't so much trying to say that they aren't mythological but to suggest that there does seem to be an historical basis.
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TIAB



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That seems the most likely basis. From the sounds of it, the men of the that tribe would be gone for years at a time, leaving the women to manage in their absense, including expanding the population.
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Michael



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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
I always wondered about the mastectomy thing. It seems like a pretty big surgery for a time period that was not well known for people surviving surgeries. I guess it just adds to their badassery, myth or not.


I don't really want to suggest this was a pain-free, easy, or risk-free surgery back then, but people have been known to do crazy things (like relieving pressure on the skull) for ages before we'd think it safe.
I'm agreeing with you 100% that you can't just assume they did this routinely and everyone was fine but... you can't really assume they could not do this either
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ChastMastr



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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not quite related, but maddening all the same:

The Women Of DC Comics. In Two Pages.
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Yinello



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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Dahomey Amazons were warrior women who fought for a king and didn't cut off their breasts - and were very real.
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ChastMastr



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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mindslicer wrote:
Are we talking about the same Wonder Woman whose powers originally became useless when she would get tied up by a man? Or did her 'feminist roots' come after that?



I should point out that even in this panel, when she permits a man to chain her, she becomes "as weak as other women in a man-ruled world." She always overcomes that sort of thing as part of the story, so it's a bit like suggesting Superman is a weakling because he's affected by Kryptonite before (always) defeating the villain.

The JSA stuff (secretary of, etc.) was not in her own book, I should also point out.

The relationship of the Golden Age Wonder Woman and bondage and such is a tad more complex than the above would suggest. Marston was actually a believer in female superiority himself (remember, this was 1940, so there was a lot less nuance and development compared with the different waves of feminism we've had since).

There are many articles on all of this, including on Marston's own life, but I thought I should mention it.
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Snorri



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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael wrote:
Samsally wrote:
I always wondered about the mastectomy thing. It seems like a pretty big surgery for a time period that was not well known for people surviving surgeries. I guess it just adds to their badassery, myth or not.


I don't really want to suggest this was a pain-free, easy, or risk-free surgery back then, but people have been known to do crazy things (like relieving pressure on the skull) for ages before we'd think it safe.
I'm agreeing with you 100% that you can't just assume they did this routinely and everyone was fine but... you can't really assume they could not do this either


Mastectomies are a far bigger surgery though.
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