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2013-05-09: Madam and Eve
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Reader1



Joined: 04 Feb 2012
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:

http://i40.tinypic.com/212fy36.jpg

This is fun.


are you actually making these as you go!? it always surprises me how many of sinfest's followers are good at drawing
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1046

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reader1 wrote:
Rune wrote:

http://i40.tinypic.com/212fy36.jpg

This is fun.


are you actually making these as you go!? it always surprises me how many of sinfest's followers are good at drawing


Yup. I are Photoshop monkey.
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um, Rune, I don't want this to be taken as argumentative, stiring the shit pot or anything like that. Just an observation.

You seem very quick to throw links to logical fallacies when you disagree with someone. I'm pretty sure that you do see a fallacy in the persons thinking, but you may want to hold of doing it that much. Mostly because someone could say that you are using the Fallacy Fallacy as an argument as why they are wrong. Just an observation, sorry if it came as insulting.

Last thing, though, how do the people view this routine.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/82e254f80f/racist-or-funny-gift-basket-prank-uncensored

The Racist Gift Basket.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1046

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
Um, Rune, I don't want this to be taken as argumentative, stiring the shit pot or anything like that. Just an observation.

You seem very quick to throw links to logical fallacies when you disagree with someone. I'm pretty sure that you do see a fallacy in the persons thinking, but you may want to hold of doing it that much. Mostly because someone could say that you are using the Fallacy Fallacy as an argument as why they are wrong. Just an observation, sorry if it came as insulting.

Last thing, though, how do the people view this routine.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/82e254f80f/racist-or-funny-gift-basket-prank-uncensored

The Racist Gift Basket.


I did it once. To one person. And you don't exactly have a great track record so far with attributing things to me correctly.
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
Rothide wrote:
Um, Rune, I don't want this to be taken as argumentative, stiring the shit pot or anything like that. Just an observation.

You seem very quick to throw links to logical fallacies when you disagree with someone. I'm pretty sure that you do see a fallacy in the persons thinking, but you may want to hold of doing it that much. Mostly because someone could say that you are using the Fallacy Fallacy as an argument as why they are wrong. Just an observation, sorry if it came as insulting.

Last thing, though, how do the people view this routine.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/82e254f80f/racist-or-funny-gift-basket-prank-uncensored

The Racist Gift Basket.


I did it once. To one person. And you don't exactly have a great track record so far with attributing things to me correctly.


Agreed. As stated, just an observation, I apologize again.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fuck that noise. If you use a fallacy, you deserve to be called out on it. You do, Rune does, I do. No one should get away with lazy logic. If you find you're at the pointy end of that particular stick more often than you'd like learn to argue better.
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Jody



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True dat. Further, try not to hold positions that require you to resort to using them in the first place.

Not calling anyone out specifically. I always try and ask myself if the argument I'm making is a logical fallacy, and if so, why I felt the need to use it.
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Finnegan



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 1080
Location: in that cool mountain air, on an appalachian trail

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there's nothing worse in a debate than someone who uses lazy logic. I've always taken great pride in the time and effort I put into my logical arguments. Sure, I could just take the easy way out and find a way for logic act o\as a natural compliment to by arguments, but to me it's all about the hard work and sweat and dedication and finally the feeling of accomplishment when, after all that time spent twisting, a wrenching and perverting logic so completely that it's will is utterly broken and it's my bitch and it will support any argument I damn well tell it to.
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Zhuinden



Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 285

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
crayven wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
crayven wrote:
ShadowCell wrote:
you really don't see how that blaxsploitation bible strip banked on racist caricatures of black people? depended on it to be funny? the big lips, the ebonics, the fried chicken and malt liquor? 'cuz these are pretty old ways of denigrating black folks. perhaps they're more prevalent and easily recognized in America than in Europe, but if you can't even see what was racist about it, then evidently you don't know racism when you see it.

Half of Sinfest's humor up to 2011 can be thrown into "racist" "sexist" or w/e category.
And yet you still enjoyed it back then.
And i bet you if Tat would draw the 'white cracka' bible" i wouldn't be angry and would STILL laugh at it.

But hey i am used to humor.



I wouldn't laugh at a 'white cracka' bible unless it was taking down stereotypes, not using them. A 'white cracka' bible done in the style of te blaxploitation would likely make fun of poor, white southerners anyhow, and I don't think that is right either. I used to, but then I grew up.

No you became boring.
Making fun of stereotypes ( which by the way 99% of cases don't even apply to the real people ) IS fun.

Although if we'd have something akin to your rednecks in here i'd WANT people to make fun of them. Make fun of stupidity !

You people let them run your country lol


Where are you from?

The stereotypes are reinforced by the humor and, HUGE SHOCK, lots of people believe the stereotypes are true.


As much as it makes me sad, this is true. Confused

People seem to have issues with empathy due to generalization. If you treat an individual as part of a group which you can manipulate on a conceptual level, you no longer need to care to learn about the person, and you certainly don't need to care about any damage you cause to them, because you're "interacting with a member of the group".
Example, manwhores who say all the things the girl would want to hear, have sex with her, and give her a fake number just to keep hoping. He did his job well-done, he "got laid with another woman". What will the girl think?

We should just learn that people are people, and that's all there is to it.

Also, is this mental masturbation? I have this horrible feeling that it is. Sorry about that.
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Dro



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3854

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zhuinden wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
crayven wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
crayven wrote:
ShadowCell wrote:
you really don't see how that blaxsploitation bible strip banked on racist caricatures of black people? depended on it to be funny? the big lips, the ebonics, the fried chicken and malt liquor? 'cuz these are pretty old ways of denigrating black folks. perhaps they're more prevalent and easily recognized in America than in Europe, but if you can't even see what was racist about it, then evidently you don't know racism when you see it.

Half of Sinfest's humor up to 2011 can be thrown into "racist" "sexist" or w/e category.
And yet you still enjoyed it back then.
And i bet you if Tat would draw the 'white cracka' bible" i wouldn't be angry and would STILL laugh at it.

But hey i am used to humor.



I wouldn't laugh at a 'white cracka' bible unless it was taking down stereotypes, not using them. A 'white cracka' bible done in the style of te blaxploitation would likely make fun of poor, white southerners anyhow, and I don't think that is right either. I used to, but then I grew up.

No you became boring.
Making fun of stereotypes ( which by the way 99% of cases don't even apply to the real people ) IS fun.

Although if we'd have something akin to your rednecks in here i'd WANT people to make fun of them. Make fun of stupidity !

You people let them run your country lol


Where are you from?

The stereotypes are reinforced by the humor and, HUGE SHOCK, lots of people believe the stereotypes are true.


Example, manwhores who say all the things the girl would want to hear, have sex with her, and give her a fake number just to keep hoping. He did his job well-done, he "got laid with another woman". What will the girl think?


That's a harmful stereotype enforcing societal gender roles.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3395
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not getting this 'manwhore' example.


With regard to stereotyping of groups for comedic effect, this happens:
1. Few images of black people exist in mainstream entertainment. (More than there used to be.)

2. Because there are fewer, every representation of black people matters more. These representations are sometimes the only thing people use to form their opinion about black people.

3. Black people experience the fall out. White people who interact with them tend to only know stereotypes - and they believe these stereotypes are true. So even well meaning white people will stare at, avoid and mistrust a black man more than they would a white man. Other people assume a black person is an ignorant criminal, on welfare, of low iq, and very unhealthy.

4. An uneducated employer, relying on the stereotypes presented to them as information about a black applicant, will not hire the black person for work that requires intelligence, honesty, and the ability to represent the company to the general public. Because why would you hire someone who is uneducated, crass, dangerous, unintelligent and violent - when there is that nice white guy over there who also wants the job. You're not a racist, but....well, business has to go on.

5. Less money is given to programs that assist black people, since they are viewed as utterly lazy, dependant and low intelligence. No chance for them to succeed, so why bother? Don't spend money on black schools, as the kids are going nowhere anyway - and then the black kids tend not to make it as far as the white kids, which only confirms the discriminatory act. Don't provide welfare to black people if possible, because they are lazy and unable to motivate themselves. Poor, uneducated black people then remain poor and uneducated - thus the prophecy is fulfilled.


Regarding humor specifically, racist humor depends on people believing the stereotypes or enjoying them. My knowledge of how the stereotypes affect actual people strips the humor of any enjoyment. My knowledge of the history of representation for people of color precludes any enjoyment of it.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10712
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
4. An uneducated employer, relying on the stereotypes presented to them as information about a black applicant, will not hire the black person for work that requires intelligence, honesty, and the ability to represent the company to the general public. Because why would you hire someone who is uneducated, crass, dangerous, unintelligent and violent - when there is that nice white guy over there who also wants the job. You're not a racist, but....well, business has to go on.

If anyone's interested, here's the science to back that up.
Quote:
The results indicate large racial differences in callback rates to a phone line with a voice mailbox attached and a message recorded by someone of the appropriate race and gender. Job applicants with white names needed to send about 10 resumes to get one callback; those with African-American names needed to send around 15 resumes to get one callback. This would suggest either employer prejudice or employer perception that race signals lower productivity.

...

It indicates that a white name yields as many more callbacks as an additional eight years of experience. Race, the authors add, also affects the reward to having a better resume. Whites with higher quality resumes received 30 percent more callbacks than whites with lower quality resumes. But the positive impact of a better resume for those with Africa-American names was much smaller.

"While one may have expected that improved credentials may alleviate employers' fear that African-American applicants are deficient in some unobservable skills, this is not the case in our data," the authors write. "Discrimination therefore appears to bite twice, making it harder not only for African-Americans to find a job but also to improve their employability."

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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 1160
Location: Behind my Cintiq

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seriously need to save both your comments just now Stripey and Dogen. For starters, Stripey put that so perfectly why racist images are so bad in such a straightforward way. Seriously it's one of my favorite ways it's ever been arranged, very succinct. It's what people don't seem to get! And then of course with the extra bit of info from Dogen. Perfecto! I love you guys so much right now! Wink
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3395
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yay! I'm glad you liked it, Adyon.

Thanks for the link, Dogen. I remembered that study happened, but not much about it. It is really infuriating that this is such a problem.

But as I was saying to someone the other day, when I get stuck down in the muck of racism, I just remember that in the news people all over the US get to see a happy, successful black family in a position of power - and those images will be persisting after Obama's presidency is over. I am hopeful that alone should do a lot to counteract stereotypes.
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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 1160
Location: Behind my Cintiq

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, and we really are moving to a point where some people are not so influenced that they see those stereotypes in the media and think that's all there is to black people, but unfortunately I see people who revel in it when they see it too, like it's confirming some hatred they have that they want to see vindicated.

And so many that just are naive to the truth, because so many areas still don't mix races well, and without that one-on-one experience, many people just think the one black guy from their job they like is the "anomaly" not the norm.
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