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2013-05-15: Bechdel Test
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Tekii



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 3:16 am    Post subject: 2013-05-15: Bechdel Test Reply with quote



I got a good immature giggle from this one.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6040
Location: California

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abbott and Costello

Cheech and Chong

and now

Lusty and Peaches
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Flavius Maximus



Joined: 07 May 2011
Posts: 799
Location: The Wrong side of the Reality Zone Sign

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had to Google

I think Tat is safe Smile
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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 1160
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I interrupt for a quick announcement:

Hahahahahahaa!

That is all. Laughing
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ktern



Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 950

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

looks like ms. justice has a rival fiction writer now
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Homeslice



Joined: 17 Jun 2012
Posts: 204
Location: NC

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't know that that was a thing.

Huh.
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aboutwhistles



Joined: 28 Oct 2012
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

<3 <3 <3
I had a hunch that the Bechdel test was why more characters were getting official names.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3284
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A star for effort. Not sure which color.
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Onimaru



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 143

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an amateur writer myself, I have to admit that a LOT of my first works suffered failing this test miserably. Actually, I'll readily admit that it's still hard at times to not make this mistake, as a man writing for female characters most times we identify them by how they interact with men, so having them act on their own or interact between themselves can be a challenge that needs to be taken seriously, or you'll fall into the trap of making uninteresting 2 dimensional female characters that only exist as a backboard to how your male characters interact with women.

That being said, Slick's 'short story' made me laugh a bit and be sad at the same time. Razz
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1046

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Homeslice wrote:
I didn't know that that was a thing.

Huh.


Yeah, basically considered a bare-minimum assessment of industry trends in general and the way women characters are written and portrayed.

This is a pretty awesome overview of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLF6sAAMb4s
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Onimaru wrote:
the trap of making uninteresting 2 dimensional female characters that only exist as a backboard to how your male characters interact with women.


This, this, yes, this. This is exactly why the Bechdel test is a thing.
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Flavius Maximus



Joined: 07 May 2011
Posts: 799
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manually!!

Mr. Green
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Maynar



Joined: 26 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1017

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a long time wondered about something...

In the Bechdel Test, there must be no conversation between women and about a man, or does at least one have to meet the requirement? I've seen both interpretations.
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Arthain



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 96

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Onimaru wrote:
As an amateur writer myself, I have to admit that a LOT of my first works suffered failing this test miserably. Actually, I'll readily admit that it's still hard at times to not make this mistake, as a man writing for female characters most times we identify them by how they interact with men, so having them act on their own or interact between themselves can be a challenge that needs to be taken seriously, or you'll fall into the trap of making uninteresting 2 dimensional female characters that only exist as a backboard to how your male characters interact with women.


I must admit the same thing as well. I write too, my current story has over 575 pages to it, and I find it very difficult to write from the female perspective. I try, and whenever I have issues I actually call up my female cousins and ask them how they would start this conversation or go about saying that.

It helps but ultimately it boils down to how well I write the story.

The Bechdel test can be applied in various different ways and it's hard to define exactly where the test starts and ends. If there is a conversation between two women, which I have frequently in my stories, does an ENTIRE conversation have to exclude men? Or do you just need to include topics in that conversation that have nothing to do with men. Can it be a conversation about something other than men, but men can participate in it? Or does the exclusion need to be absolute?

Also is there a male version of the Bechdel test? Because there is the very real possibility that some stories don't have any male to male conversations that have nothing to do with females.

I have to disagree with the last point you made though. It IS possible to make three-dimensional characters without passing the Bechdel test. Likewise it's also still possible to making boring uninteresting two-dimensional characters while passing it with flying colors. To make good three-dimensional characters you need to work in feelings, thoughts and actions like that of a real person. You have to be able to step back and think "yes, a real life individual would do that in that situation in those circumstances." If you can't think that you need to go back and change it. Making a three-dimensional characters requires you to make a believable character.

My current story does pass it the Bechdel test. I can remember specific conversations where incredibly powerful female characters bantered with one another (In my story there's actually far more females than males and with the exception of all but one male the females are all stronger, physically and mentally). But that doesn't mean the characters are three-dimensional. I try but that's about all I can do. The more you write the better you become.
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