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2013-05-21: Hi Guys
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Onimaru



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 138

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Sadly I can see a great many parallels between the comic strip and these forums.

There are certain individuals, I don't need to name them because every knows who they are, that immediately go into troll mode and insult anyone and everyone that even remotely disagrees with their point of view.

There are also people that can't even say hi without everyone within fifty threads jumping down their throat, such as Guest.

Now I'm not judging these situations, just pointing out areas where, if you take away the 'innocence factor' of Lil' E, the similarities are uncanny. We, like the people on that forum in the strip, have no idea what goes on in a persons daily life, we don't know if they've had world altering situations happen to them. Many simply judge based on what was said in the past, not what is being said now, and make that person's experience here a living hell as a result.


I do see your point, however many here do bring this upon themselves, I've read here far longer than I've posted and I've come to seriously reevaluate many beliefs I've had about the equality of men and women. And to be utterly frank, I was a damn fool, ignorant to many issues women face, and blind to many of the trials they face due to the idea that by not actively doing anything discriminatory (consciously) I was somehow not part of the problem. I couldn't have been more wrong, so many things we do in our day to day lives compounds these problems, stereotypes and near dehumanizing actions that we justify, 'a bit of fun', 'just kidding', etc.

Not being part of the problem is not enough, not being part of the solution is terrible. To quote someone great, "The only thing that evil needs to triumph is for Good Men to do nothing." We all need to wake up and realize that we need to step up, when women bashing goes on where you work, speak up, tell people to cut it the hell out, and when they try and shrug it off and say it's all in good fun and they were just kidding, call them on their bullshit, ask them point blank if they'd dare say those things in front of a female co-worker, their wife, or daughter. And you'll find out quickly a VERY small portion of what it's like to be a woman in the work place, everyone's conversations will dry up when you enter the room, jokes and laughter will come to a stop and you'll find yourself ostracized from your 'buddies' as by standing up for women not being treated like the catch all for all their problems has now made you into some kind of enemy.

So yes, Forum bullying does happen, sometimes people don't deserve it, other times they do. When I first introduced myself here, I was less than welcomed, I stated point blank that I would debate topics with brutal honesty and bludgeon with logic. Somehow that was interpreted immediately that I planned to put Feminists in their place, and show just how 'terrible' men have it having to live under the oppression of the Dark Sisterhoods evil Mission. This was not my intent, as I've said in reading these forums I've come to many an understanding that I personally need to do more and would like to consider myself a more enlightened person, but as I felt it better to prove myself by my posts rather than argue my intent there. However it does lend itself to the concept of the Bullying you were speaking of, and that in dealing with some of the more disrespectful members around here, it could be said that a few might have adopted a 'Sexist until proven Virtuous', but in rereading my post, in my attempt to be forward with my intentions I may have come across as disrespectful myself, as if I knew better or could argue the points of things better than others.

That being said, I do apologize if my first foray into the forums was ill received, I do hope that I can prove to be a worthwhile member of this place as time goes on. But as for the people banding together to remove unwanted elements? I understand why it happens, yes it's mobbing, yes it's bullying. But as I said, many of them bring it on themselves, and whatever 'world' altering situations they may endure, regardless of personal belief or upbringing, everyone is responsible for their own actions and one must live with the consequences of those actions, if they can't deal with that, they are always free and welcome to leave.
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Arthain



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 96

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will agree that some here do bring it upon themselves. If you come in guns blazing, insulting and demeaning everyone that has a different point of view, yes you deserve to get the same in return.

But there are others that genuinely try to have a legitimate debate and people just tear strips into them simply because they disagree with their view or their stance.

I myself love to play devils advocate. I'll often take up a point of view I don't personally share just because I want to try and bring an alternative side into the discussion. Too many people close their eyes to everything but their own narrow views and I hate that. I try REALLY hard to open their eyes, to get them to at least 'see' more than their own stance.

I guess it boils down to that there is no one right 'view' or 'stance' to take on a topic. There are many and I really wish people could simply accept that but there really seems to be a 'you're either with us or against us' mentality in these forums when the strips touch on sensitive topics.

On a side note, I'm not sure what workplace you're talking about but the one I just came from everyone is treated equally. There really isn't a whole lot of gender inequality. Of course once you factor out gender and racial inequality the 'really' ugly side of the workplace politics arise. At my old place if you didn't throw your colleague under the bus, they'd do it to you.
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Mokurai



Joined: 15 May 2013
Posts: 4
Location: Columbus, Indiana

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: You Con't Say You Can't Play Reply with quote

by Vivian Gussin Paley
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Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3269

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are some parallels. The problem is that the parallels you're drawing arthain require the people who get shouted at to have had a complete 180 of personality and opinions which has only happened a couple of times. Usually it's just more Guest and Thy.

Also...Playing devils advocate without announcing it at the beginning of your discussion just makes you an asshole.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1043

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If rejection experienced on one internet forum is enough to make someone's life a living hell, then they've got other problems.

They may even be legit problems, like the abuse and abandonment in Lil'E's backstory. And that's tragic. And I hope they get help, and find love, and all those good things.

However, unless they specifically are slated for that purpose, internet forums are not for personal therapy. Most forums can't survive as any kind of usable space if they organize around dysfunction.
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merest



Joined: 15 May 2011
Posts: 325

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect that some of these problems (how to humanely maintain online communities) have no easy solution, for they depend on differences in culture and temperament. Some people are very overt, and think insults and abuse honest, or even insightful. Other people are more restrained (fine, or passive-aggressive), and are astonished or mortified by such behaviour. Depending on which type predominates in an online community, those who don't fit into the ethos are dealt in very different ways. I much prefer the oblique approach, which is why I find places like this (which work in ways unintuitive to me) interesting.
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Mikewee777



Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 528
Location: 0_0

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Why isn't this thread talking about feminism and why men suck?
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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 1049
Location: Chamber of the House of Lords in the Palace of Westminister

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikewee777, how could you do this to me?!

Due to the dimensions of your 4chan screencap, now I have to scroll from side to side to read all of the posts on this page of the thread!

DO YOU REALISE WHAT YOU HAVE DONE MIKEWEE YOU HAVE CHANGED THE SYSTEM YOU HAVE UPSET THE BALANCE OF YIN AND YANG YOU HAVE OVERTURNED THE STATUS QUO AND NOW WE SHALL HAVE REVOLUTION AND BOURGEOISIE FAT CATS LIKE ME SHALL LOSE OUR HEADS ON ROBESPIERRE'S GUILLOTINE AND TERROR SHALL REIGN

(it's funny because the Bourgeoisie WERE the revolutionaries in the French Revolution)

WHY MIKE

WHYYYYYYY

YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE MIKE

IT WAS SAID THAT YOU WOULD DESTROY THE SITH, NOT JOIN THEM

YOU WERE TO BRING BALANCE TO THE FORCE, NOT LEAVE IT IN DARKNESS

YOU WERE MY BROTHER MIKE

I LOVED YOU
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Last edited by Istancow on Tue May 21, 2013 8:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 1049
Location: Chamber of the House of Lords in the Palace of Westminister

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose the only thing for it
is to never take yourself or anyone else
too seriously on the internet

Of course. even this
can offer you only so much protection
against the devastating effects
of being flipped off by Mr. Rogers

(typed in verse for your convenience)
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17036
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Onimaru wrote:
in rereading my post, in my attempt to be forward with my intentions I may have come across as disrespectful myself, as if I knew better or could argue the points of things better than others.


this is exactly why you got jumped on - your post seemed to suggest that none of the rest of us _did_ argue honestly, using logic.

and in any event, it is generally better to show what you can do, rather than march in and proclaim what you are going to do. that does get an especially bad reaction here, because there have been a number of people who have been demonstrably dismal at arguing their points, and yet they insisted that they were the ones being all logical and all the rest of us just didn't understand how to argue properly. but in general - if you start out making a claim, you've already set a high bar for yourself, and people are going to watch carefully to see if you can make it, or are just boasting. so, you know, just a heads up.

but i'm glad reading the forum has made you reevaluate some of your beliefs (so some of us must have used good logical arguments, right?
Wink )

forums have histories, and one has the same problem stepping into an existing forum as stepping into any group of people. so, for example, you get a job at a place undergone a brutal audit from the head office, which has opened a lot of wounds. if you poke one of those wounds, people are going to react badly - even if you had no way of knowing the wound was there. 's just the way people work.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3118
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You didn't 'maybe' come across as disrespectful. You came across as an asshat who lectures people on politeness while looking down on and insulting them. If your aim is to come down from yon high mountain to fix stuff, you've done it all wrong.
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Onimaru



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 138

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did not attempt to, nor did I ever state that NONE of you argue honestly, what I intended to convey was that for those that didn't I wouldn't use kid gloves with in pointing it out. I was not intending to come out and display my 'massive' ability to fight their battles for them, since they need help, right? No, you all certainly don't need me, but I wanted to add my voice, to help in whatever way I can to enlighten others as I have been, but I have little patience to do so for those that remain wilfully ignorant and spout opinion as fact.

There are many on this board that argue and debate wonderfully, stripeypants is among them despite the fact they have taken to most of my posts quite negatively, I have no ill regard for them, as I have said, I've read here for some time and I know that Stripeypants has been at the forefront of some of the most disgusting blunt trauma arguments fired by some of the most disgusting wilfully ignorant people this board has seen, she(If I am incorrect in stating gender I apologise) has had more patience than I believe I could have.

In closing, my lacklustre arrival has shown me that I need to be careful with how I present myself even if I do intend to fight impassioned arguments with reason, I need to make sure that I'm saying I'm looking to debate on equal footing with people I'm looking to respect and enjoy the company of, not present myself like a fool who thinks he can do better than them at everything. So I would like to say, I am sorry for how I represented myself, please watch me as I progress and hope to prove I am better than how I so easily made myself be perceived.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3118
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, saviour man, for deigning to come down into the dingy dark with us uneducated savages. It sure is nice of you to think of saving us in our wretched ignorance.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17036
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hush, now, he's trying to apologize and do things right.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And yes, I do have patience, when something will come from being patient. I like connecting with people. First thing I tried to do when I got here was have lengthy, laborious arguments carefully explaining things while not shying away from criticism. That is one of the things about my social anxiety I've needed to work on - because it prevents me from even interacting much on the internet, which is pretty much the easiest place for me to socialize.

And it didn't take long for that to be a colossal, fatiguing waste of time, so I stopped.

You think i'm better than other people here for having patience? You say you've read the forums. I don't know how much you've read or understood. anyone who comes here and says, "I don't get why there are so many raging assholes who won't be nice to newcomers!" hasn't been paying attention.

In other words:

IT IS EXHAUSTING TO CONTINUALLY DEBATE THE SAME TOPICS

OVER

AND OVER

AND OVER

AND OVER

WITH PEOPLE WHO REFUSE TO ENGAGE AND WHO PRATTLE AND WHO OBFUSCATE AND PLAY EVERY GAME DETAILED IN DERAILING FOR DUMMIES

AND SO THEY MIGHT AS WELL BE ENTERTAINING

AND THEY WILL LEARN VIA OSTRACIZATION OR THEY WILL NOT LEARN AND THEY WILL BECOME TIRED AND THEY WILL LEAVE.
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