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2013-06-05: Out Of Cookies
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3316

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zhuinden wrote:
Micius wrote:
I personally go by: "Media which is purposefully sexually arousing."


I'd rather go with "recording of sexual activity". I somewhat wish the industry wasn't trying to create it 'purposefully sexually arousing', you'd think it being a record of sexual activity would be enough. But then they include all these random fantasies of plumbers, bondage, anal sex and rape that honestly make no sense and I'm not sure how it contributes anything to the 'sexually arousing' part, in fact, it just makes these events seem "perfectly normal" and help support this type of deviant behavior.


Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
ktern wrote:
well, yes, actually

i don't agree with "guns don't kill people, people do" being used as an argument against gun control: there are violent people out there and they shouldn't have guns. but i think the phrase itself is true in the sense that people should be held accountable for what they do

monkey, i would wager that if you saw a pornographic video you would not be brainwashed into being a rapist. even if you saw several, it would probably not happen

now this doesn't make porn harmless, as i think it's one of several contributing factors that points people toward fucked-up morals. but i think that one of those factors is also the very perception that media can control you so thoroughly that the evil things you do might not be your fault. that lack of accountability gives people a perceived out which they shouldn't have, this way to justify their actions to themselves

maybe i'm missing what's unsatisfactory to you here but i don't really have much to work with, sorry


Pornographic videos were used extensively in my sexual abuse from age 11 to 14 actually.


Wait, what? Shocked


Pretty much exactly what i said. It started with the whole "male bonding" scenario, they were used to basically "teach me about sex" and then it escalated through some pretty twisted shit for a while til my stepfather decided it was "time for me to become a man for really reals" and I was treated to losing my virginity via roofie and a meth dealers prostitute/girlfriend at 13 when i balked.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1053

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, that is twisted. Nobody should do that kind of shit to anybody, ever.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3316

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it was, I only brought it up at all to emphasize that the whole porn/porn culture thing is not some completely harmless thing, and to reiterate that the fact that there is some tasteful respectful porn out there, that in no way mitigates the wreckage the other stuff leaves behind.
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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 1163
Location: Behind my Cintiq

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that's seriously messed up. I'm really sorry and annoyed/angry by that situation. And you're right. It's the perfect example of just one of many horrible scenarios.

Sure, not all porn is bad...doesn't change what people see/imitate normally. Sure, not all people watch porn and become deviants...doesn't change the fact that for every person that does, it could be any number of victims that DO feel the repercussions.
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3242

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting back to non-reality-based stuff (if that's okay), I searched the Archives for "porn" and came across some mildly interesting variations on the theme (admittedly, all from long ago, before the strip took its current direction):

First of all, no less than 'Nique herself has occasionally (real occasionally, like at three-to-six year intervals) enjoyed porn:


http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=374
(so, how clichéd/chauvinistic is it that Crim's first presumption is that 'Nique is reading a romance novel? women, like men, read all kinds of stuff)

http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2108

http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=3291
(yeah, not...quite sure what the deal is with that last one, either)

This strip serves as a reminder that Crim simply accepts that Slick and Squig enjoy porn without comment or judgment:

http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2350

Even Squig has demonstrated more than average self-examination on the topic:

http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2695

http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=3167

Admittedly, using porn as a source of reassurance of one's own value as an individual is sort of, uh, well, but anyway, it shows that it means a lot more to him than it means to the average porn enthusiast. It's not just about arousal to him.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3429
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like Crim looked at the title to see what she was reading. Although her eyes look like she's just starting at the ground in front of her, which to me makes it look like she's in shock.
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3242

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, to be nitpicky, he's not really in a position to see the front cover, just the back. The point remains that 'Nique has occasionally enjoyed porn. She just doesn't make it part of her daily routine the way Slick and Squig do. If 'Nique feels any sort of guilt about enjoying non-meat porn (this is sounding wrong before I even finish), we have yet to see her express it.

Does it make a difference that 'Nique is only shown partaking of printed non-meat porn (which, even in the Sinfestiverse, people presumably can't enter and interact with)? Should it make a difference?

Now that I think about it, I thought that written "porn" without pictures technically qualified as erotica, but maybe not. Then again, I have no idea if the book 'Nique's reading has pictures or not.

Then again again, 'Nique enjoys woman-oriented porn, which opens a whole new kettle of monkeys...

ADDENDUM:

stripeypants wrote:
Although her eyes look like she's just starting at the ground in front of her, which to me makes it look like she's in shock.


I think that's more just a trait of Tat's art style of the time than anything else, though.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3429
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I agree it was just how he was drawing at the time. I still amuse myself with my secondary interpretation.
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3242

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, as I've already mentioned, the revelation that "the BOMF District" exists in Sinfest's material world (so what was all that "enter and exit through computers" stuff about then, anyway?) changes the entire issue. Unless all the world's a porn movie set, what the strip has repeatedly told us is "porn" isn't porn at all, it's prostitution, something that I'm not sure the Sisterhood has ever even tried to tackle. Thus, if porno-cyberspace is part of the strip's physical reality yet that reality is itself not reality (as The Reality Zone's existence constantly implies), then what are we left with?


http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2133

So WTH, Tat? WTFH?


http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=323

Ah, 'Nique and Slick just lounging around in the grass, enjoying each other's company, speaking impertinently to God. Good times.
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Kjralon



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 51
Location: New Jersey, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
Assholes would still be assholes, but we don't have to culturally channel that assholery into acts of sexual violation via porn tropes, and simultaneously normalize the idea to the point that it becomes more difficult for the victims to identify that what was done to them is wrong, and is more than just an asshole being an asshole.


Quote:
Sexual violation is NOT just an asshole being an asshole. Somewhere along the line, the asshole learns what he can and can't get away with, and porn and porn culture make it easier for the asshole to learn and justify some truly vile behaviors.

And for whatever number out there that would still be sexually violent even without porn tropes informing their actions, getting rid of that kind of mentality would still help victims speak out and be taken seriously in the aftermath, and would make it easier to warn other potential victims away from the assholes because YES THEY'RE THAT BAD, it's not normal, and it's not an overreaction to call it what it is, take it seriously, and shame the perp for doing something truly terrible.


These things are exactly what I was getting at. <3 you, Rune.
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3242

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On another another note, if the BOMF District is "real"...

http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4345

...does that mean there actually is (see Panel 9) a Devil Girl who is virtually identical to 'Nique walking around somewhere?

And how about Panel 16 here?

http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4618

The heck?

And this. What. Is. This.

http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4240
http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4471

Obviously the Sisterhood has several very vocal critics in this forum, but the Sisterhood strips at least contain narratives that IMHO are reasonably easy to understand (except for the "Curly vs. the BOMF District" strips, that is). Please, Tat, enough with the enigmatic, already.

But that's just me, of course.
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3242

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kjralon wrote:
Quote:
Sexual violation is NOT just an asshole being an asshole. Somewhere along the line, the asshole learns what he can and can't get away with, and porn and porn culture make it easier for the asshole to learn and justify some truly vile behaviors.

And for whatever number out there that would still be sexually violent even without porn tropes informing their actions, getting rid of that kind of mentality would still help victims speak out and be taken seriously in the aftermath, and would make it easier to warn other potential victims away from the assholes because YES THEY'RE THAT BAD, it's not normal, and it's not an overreaction to call it what it is, take it seriously, and shame the perp for doing something truly terrible.


These things are exactly what I was getting at. <3 you, Rune.


Just as a thought, though, have incidents of sexual violation increased as porn has become more commonplace?

Or has acknowledgement of incidents of sexual violation increased, for whatever reason (before anybody says anything, I certainly wouldn't give porn any credit for that)?

Seriously, I have no idea.

You don't have to be much of a historian to know that date rape, for example, is taken a lot more seriously than it used to be. Is there still room for improvement? Obviously. But that doesn't change the fact that society's reaction (or lack thereof) to date rape used to be worse.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3429
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the military, they've increased. Don't know about anyone else's workplace.
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
In the military, they've increased. Don't know about anyone else's workplace.


Well, not to sound like I have the slightest idea of what I'm talking about (I admit upfront that I don't), but:

(1) the number of women in the military has also increased, meaning, to put it bluntly, that sexual violators in the military now have a larger number of potential victims (if x =y% of z number of women remains constant and z increases, so does x)

(2) unless I'm mistaken (as I may well be), crimes of that kind, too, are now being reported more often than was previously the case

I'm not saying that there hasn't been an overall increase, but influences on the statistics need to be considered. IMHO.
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Zhuinden



Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 290

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading this strip struck me about Slick's somewhat odd behavior...

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