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2013-06-09: Toyland
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6078
Location: California

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's somewhere in that Team Liquid thread. Norwegian people (or at least, people who lived in Norway) talking about what's going on in Norway.

now, unless you've got any evidence on your side that this documentary isn't hacked and edited to deceptively serve an agenda, i'd suggest you once again explain to me why i should be impressed.
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
Rothide, you still strike me as having a very bizarre approach to identifying and navigating bias.


I will admit I don't know how to argue this, I think I'm going to stop before I piss people off.

However I will use an example of what I'm kind of trying to get at, M. Moore made a documentary "Bowling for Columbine."

Many groups wrote articles saying it was biased and doctored. These groups came from Right Wing sources, and others.

Who was more biased? Were they equally biased? Do we have to discredit both sources because of it?
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
it's somewhere in that Team Liquid thread. Norwegian people (or at least, people who lived in Norway) talking about what's going on in Norway.

now, unless you've got any evidence on your side that this documentary isn't hacked and edited to deceptively serve an agenda, i'd suggest you once again explain to me why i should be impressed.


I guess you don't have to, I just find the people that the Comedian goes to gather information from are credited, and the information was brushed off by the NGI.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you're still not impressing me. of course the group that he's trying to close isn't very interested in hearing why the comedian thinks they should be closed.
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
you're still not impressing me. of course the group that he's trying to close isn't very interested in hearing why the comedian thinks they should be closed.


Um, he wasn't trying to close them, he was asking them simple questions, he did the documentary in 2010, they closed in Novermber 2012.
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
it explains a lot about you that you think google translate is actually useful.


I've used it as a multilingual dictionary from time to time.

If you just put in one word it lists all/most of the meanings, and it knows some idioms. Some. There are more useful sites for this purpose, though.
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Either way, I'm done, I'm afraid my admitted little understanding on this is causing others to become angry, and if that isn't the case I am glad, but either way, I need to stop before the fuse gets lit. Night all.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

he edited himself to look like he was asking "simple questions," you mean.

on the other hand, there's this article, which mentions

Quote:
In response to queer theorist Agnes Bolsø’s criticism that she had felt abused by the program, Eia quipped to the newspapers, “If you are a dictator that has run the business for years, you might not be very receptive to criticism.”


honestly, since this is pretty much all in a language neither of us understands, continuing to talk about it is pointless. i've dug up reason enough to be skeptical of it; if you really want to read about the nature vs nurture debate, you don't have to go to a Norwegian comedian's hackshow documentary to do it.

but i don't see why you insist on defending it so much, when you don't understand this language either. how do you know these doubts aren't warranted? you, well, don't.

but you're clinging to it anyway, because you're Rothide, and reason never blossomed in you.
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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And, once again, I missed the entirety of the conversation on this thread.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Istancow wrote:
And, once again, I missed the entirety of the conversation on this thread.


Oh, come now, we're only nine pages in, I'm sure we can still hit High Quality if we really, really try.
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
he edited himself to look like he was asking "simple questions," you mean.

on the other hand, there's this article, which mentions

Quote:
In response to queer theorist Agnes Bolsø’s criticism that she had felt abused by the program, Eia quipped to the newspapers, “If you are a dictator that has run the business for years, you might not be very receptive to criticism.”


honestly, since this is pretty much all in a language neither of us understands, continuing to talk about it is pointless. i've dug up reason enough to be skeptical of it; if you really want to read about the nature vs nurture debate, you don't have to go to a Norwegian comedian's hackshow documentary to do it.

but i don't see why you insist on defending it so much, when you don't understand this language either. how do you know these doubts aren't warranted? you, well, don't.

but you're clinging to it anyway, because you're Rothide, and reason never blossomed in you.


Hey, personal attacks aren't nice. You trying to get me angry, and that leads me to acting like an asshole. I'm not going to do that though, you decide that because some people on a forum said it was heavily edited to disbelieve it, even though you can't know the biases of the people on the sight.

I'm taking it at face value, and using the science in it, the studies that were done not in bias, but used as proof, to help me understand nature and nurture better.

Edit: And wow, yeah that is pretty biased. But was it the info he gathered that lead him to this bias, or was it originally there, that we can't actually know.
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Last edited by Rothide on Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i can't know the biases of the people on the site, no--but neither can you. on the other hand, i certainly find it plausible that they're right. i certainly can't rule it out. and since i can't rule what they say out, i have reason not to take this video seriously, unless and until i'm given reason to take it seriously.

reason, i should note, that you have not provided. ever.

which means, once again, you have not explained why i should be impressed.
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
i can't know the biases of the people on the site, no--but neither can you. on the other hand, i certainly find it plausible that they're right. i certainly can't rule it out. and since i can't rule what they say out, i have reason not to take this video seriously, unless and until i'm given reason to take it seriously.

reason, i should note, that you have not provided. ever.

which means, once again, you have not explained why i should be impressed.


Well then were kinda done, cause I said in an earlier post "I guess you don't have to." You found a reason to be against it and nothing I can say will ever give it a reason to be impressive.
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Arthain



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
The only female in the entirety of The Lord of the Flies is the sow that gets spear-raped to death.

There is a HUGE problem alone with the fact that there are absolutely zero female actors in that narrative, when it comes to taking it as descriptive of the entire human condition.

The Lord of the Flies is a privileged white male monologue, and while it is certainly valuable in its depictions of a certain zeitgeist of the time it was written and, subject to that, as an illustration of certain human ideas and values being subjugated to stupidity, and base and childish urges, it's laughable to treat it as a complete microcosm of all human society.

Society and survival are not independent of each other. Societies can become sophisticated above a basic-needs level, and a hermit can certainly get by in isolation, but if we're talking about evolution and natural developments, society is not separate from that.


Oh right, because the moment you toss in a few women everything would have been sunshines and rainbows. You don't want to see what would have happened to a bunch of teenage girls if they were to be tossed into that scenario with a bunch of teenage boys.

I wasn't using the Lord of the Flies novel as a way to demonstrate gender inequality, I was using it to demonstrate how societal views are much different than base impulses and instincts. How when you strip society as we know it from an individual they change to a more primitive version of themselves.

The fact that you're tearing strips into one of the greatest novels ever written tells me wonders about your personality. I personally hated the story but even I have to admit that it is a very well written piece of literature. It touches on many important themes and does a very good job at portraying them. I'm 'sorry' that the book doesn't cater to your feministic views but it doesn't stop it from doing a good job at what it was written to do.

I mean the book is William Golding's most famous novel and the author won a Nobel Peace Prize in literature. But apparently anyone writing worthless trash can reach that level of recognition right?

Anyways I never debated that society and survival were mutually exclusive. I said the concept of equality only arose because we no longer needed to worry about survival as a species. Because we are at the stage we are at society can evolve into something more than it was before.

Place us back into the primitive settings we were ten thousand years ago where we had nothing but ourselves and our wits and the Lord of the Flies is a good depiction of where we'll end up. Will it be exact? No, but the Lord of the Flies didn't come any where close to depicting the worst case scenarios. Things could have been a lot worse if those boys had more to fight over than simply food and shelter.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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Location: California

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
ShadowCell wrote:
i can't know the biases of the people on the site, no--but neither can you. on the other hand, i certainly find it plausible that they're right. i certainly can't rule it out. and since i can't rule what they say out, i have reason not to take this video seriously, unless and until i'm given reason to take it seriously.

reason, i should note, that you have not provided. ever.

which means, once again, you have not explained why i should be impressed.


Well then were kinda done, cause I said in an earlier post "I guess you don't have to." You found a reason to be against it and nothing I can say will ever give it a reason to be impressive.


well, you could give me reason to believe that it wasn't edited deceptively.

but you're not going to do that--because, i suspect, you have no such evidence. if you did, you would've thrown a wrench in my gears long ago by presenting it. and because, i suspect, it wouldn't matter to you anyway. you believe what this video has to say, and you agree with the article that linked it and the person who posted it, because you want to, and for no other reason than that.
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