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2013-06-10: Internet Cafe
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3171

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
Ronald wrote:
new topic

Rune wrote:
The Devil is constantly creating minions who not only have claws, but can blast fire, and then they frequently get pitchforks on top of that.


Well, hardly constantly. The only Devil Girl whom we've seen transformed from human to devil (and stay that way) is Pebbles and she demonstrably does not work for The Devil. All this time and we still don't really know anything about where Fuchsia, Baby Blue, and the rest came from (not counting Blue's as likely as not out-of-continuity "went to school with Jesus" flashbacks). Where there are Devil Men and Devil Women, there's bound to be Devil Children which equals Devil Families which sort of requires a Devil Neighborhood, but where is it? All this time and the whole area's just a big question mark.

The troubling thing about Pebbles is that she was transformed (by a man, or rather by The Man, at that) against her will yet seems to be as happy as a clam about it. She was violated to the core of her being and loves it. Time for Tat to re-examine that, I'd think.


How about you answer, or at least address, the question that line of thought was a part of, rather than deliberately and unapologetically attempt to derail it completely.


It's not "derailing," it's "changing the subject." It's a perfectly viable course of action in any forum.

Rune wrote:
Who is more likely to arm people with pointy objects? A) Sisterhood, B) Devil.

Simple answer. Not a trick question. Go.


The Devil. I never said otherwise. I'm a total Sisterhood fan.

I think you're mistaking me for somebody else, but that's okay.
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
Rothide wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
Let's say a man who is a runaway slave breaks into a shop and takes some food - because he can't get a job and doesn't have any means of supporting himself or other knowledge of the outside world. He is starving at this point and in danger of dying. He scares the crap out of a woman cashier who tries to tell him that food is for paying customers.


Does that story say, "Hey, men should take what they want by force! That silly woman should just put up with violence!"


No, but the slave also didn't just sit down and casually enjoy his meal in the shop after scaring the female.

She doesn't look like she's starving, it looks like "Im getting low, I need energy. Better top off". And instead of going to someplace where the electricity might be free (no one usually bats an eye if I bring a laptop to barnes and nobel and charge it, while browsing the books). She instead just sat and zenned, I'm more worried when he police come.


How, exactly, is she supposed to take her meal and run? Plugging in kind of literally tethers her to the spot.


What Im saying is she's not afraid of anything here, she is basically just saying, "I'm using your energy because I don't have to listen to you" I realize this is her version of FOOD but why not go to the person that gave you the knitted stuff, instead of to a chain where the person tells you what your doing is not allowed?
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1046

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronald wrote:
Rune wrote:
Ronald wrote:
new topic

Rune wrote:
The Devil is constantly creating minions who not only have claws, but can blast fire, and then they frequently get pitchforks on top of that.


Well, hardly constantly. The only Devil Girl whom we've seen transformed from human to devil (and stay that way) is Pebbles and she demonstrably does not work for The Devil. All this time and we still don't really know anything about where Fuchsia, Baby Blue, and the rest came from (not counting Blue's as likely as not out-of-continuity "went to school with Jesus" flashbacks). Where there are Devil Men and Devil Women, there's bound to be Devil Children which equals Devil Families which sort of requires a Devil Neighborhood, but where is it? All this time and the whole area's just a big question mark.

The troubling thing about Pebbles is that she was transformed (by a man, or rather by The Man, at that) against her will yet seems to be as happy as a clam about it. She was violated to the core of her being and loves it. Time for Tat to re-examine that, I'd think.


How about you answer, or at least address, the question that line of thought was a part of, rather than deliberately and unapologetically attempt to derail it completely.


It's not "derailing," it's "changing the subject." It's a perfectly viable course of action in any forum.

Rune wrote:
Who is more likely to arm people with pointy objects? A) Sisterhood, B) Devil.

Simple answer. Not a trick question. Go.


The Devil. I never said otherwise. I'm a total Sisterhood fan.

I think you're mistaking me for somebody else, but that's okay.


Nope, I'm just not at all appreciating you derailing from the question that I asked Arthain. Changing the subject = derail. If you're going to engage with what I said, as you did, I'd appreciate if you stayed on topic.
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3171

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh. I see.

Get over it.

Thanks for your time.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1046

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
Rune wrote:
Rothide wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
Let's say a man who is a runaway slave breaks into a shop and takes some food - because he can't get a job and doesn't have any means of supporting himself or other knowledge of the outside world. He is starving at this point and in danger of dying. He scares the crap out of a woman cashier who tries to tell him that food is for paying customers.


Does that story say, "Hey, men should take what they want by force! That silly woman should just put up with violence!"


No, but the slave also didn't just sit down and casually enjoy his meal in the shop after scaring the female.

She doesn't look like she's starving, it looks like "Im getting low, I need energy. Better top off". And instead of going to someplace where the electricity might be free (no one usually bats an eye if I bring a laptop to barnes and nobel and charge it, while browsing the books). She instead just sat and zenned, I'm more worried when he police come.


How, exactly, is she supposed to take her meal and run? Plugging in kind of literally tethers her to the spot.


What Im saying is she's not afraid of anything here, she is basically just saying, "I'm using your energy because I don't have to listen to you" I realize this is her version of FOOD but why not go to the person that gave you the knitted stuff, instead of to a chain where the person tells you what your doing is not allowed?


How would she find Nana? It was a drive-by-knitting. She doesn't know where Nana lives.

What does her showing fear or not while she's recharging have to do with anything?

This whole train of thought is that there would not be a double-standard, as accused, if a starving man did a functionally similar thing. And maybe the only food there is soup in a huge pot that's too big to carry off, and he has to sit there and eat it directly with a spoon. That'd be pretty parallel. It's not some "evil feminist" double standard to sympathize with Botsy's need, and I'm also pretty darn sure that everyone who has sympathized with her need has also said that she's still doing something criminal and violent and hopes she can find a better way to get her needs met.

The point is, there is nothing in this strip, or in people's reactions to it, that is in any way, "evil feminists," and those trying to paint it that way need to get a grip.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17168
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

does anyone else wonder about the fact that the salesman apparently sees nothing odd about this woman plugging herself in to the outlet? his only reaction is to tell her they are for paying customers only.

poor man - how jaded is that?
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a lot of strange stuff happens in the sinfest-verse

I suppose you'd just stop wondering about stuff like that after a while.
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
a lot of strange stuff happens in the sinfest-verse

I suppose you'd just stop wondering about stuff like that after a while.


Compared to some employees in the Sinfestiverse, Café Guy's got an angel on his shoulder (metaphorically speaking).


http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=3625
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That Jean Valjean, what an an entitled asshat. He stole some bread. Serves him right to go to prison.

Fuck that guy.


Also, I don't have the exact quote, but here are some paraphrased words from the Slave Narratives:

A lot of folks talk about us slaves stealing. But you all did the first stealing.

After the slaves were freed, there was this persistent complaints that slaves had stolen a lot of their masters property. Like food. Nevermind they were put into service against their will and had little if any means to get enough food legally.


In Sinfest land, who is expected to be purchasing these androids? That cashier might own one at home. He might own several. He has all the legal power. If he called the cops, or whatever entity deals with rogue androids in Sinfest, they'd probably show up real quick - if not to help him, then to reclaim lost/stolen property.

Whether she thinks what she's doing is right or not, she's in a really tenuous situation. She could hurt one person, but it'd be real easy for the authorities to swarm her and shut her down.

With that said, do I feel for this dude? Yes. Dealing with unpredictable, potentially dangerous customers who won't follow the rules is frightening. Especially in situations where there won't be back-up - which was the case when a coworker at a store I used to work at was laughed at by the security guards when she tried to get them to take care of harassing customers.[/i]
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3171

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think Femmy using the outlet even constitutes breaking the law (although I could be wrong). She's violating cafe policy, which isn't the same think at all. That's like what Squig does here:


http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2447

Sure, threatening the guy is illegal, but characters have often threatened each other throughout the strip.
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tricksterson



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 453

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I equate it to a starving person stealing food from a restaurant and flashing a swutchblade when an employee tries to stop her. It's certainly not legal (which isn't usually a problem for me) nor is it right, at least not the threatening with violence part. but, and I say this as someone who has stolenn food in the past when I couldn't afford it and am neither proud nor ashamed of doing so, it's certainly understandable. I don't think Tats is dumping on the cafe guy nor have i read anyone here doing so. That would be asshatty since he was just doing his job.
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry stripey but I still find it a poor example.

1. No one is after Fembot, one Eyebot told her to go back for repairs and it was destroyed by the Sisterhood. Since then there has been no groups of devil people or robots out to get the Fembot back.

2. Electricity is not uncommon. Just because the one shop asked her to stop, why couldn't she walk to the next store. She does not appear to be so low on energy it is effecting her at all. She casually strides in and plugs herself in.

3. Your saying she HAD to steal, she couldn't explain that this was an emergency, or couldn't at least ask the person to let her charge, and next time she would have currency to pay for the services.

4. The store owner did nothing toward the fem bot that would warrant a threatening action.

You can say she needs food, and I will agree with that. But she didn't have to threaten to get her way here, she could have walked to another location. I mean she knows enough that you don't go into houses to get electricity, why would she not know of other places that might let her charge.

If this was a sunday comic, where we see the fembot going from place to place, being rejected, and finally getting dangerously low, THEN she used force, I'd be fine with it. But this just looks like "I'm going to do what I want because fuck you that's why."
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aboutwhistles



Joined: 28 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why the hell does Botsy, who is effectively an escaped slave, need to be polite and respectful of the rules of a society that has created her to be enslaved and then supported her continuing enslavement? Jesus fucking christ.
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aboutwhistles wrote:
Why the hell does Botsy, who is effectively an escaped slave, need to be polite and respectful of the rules of a society that has created her to be enslaved and then supported her continuing enslavement? Jesus fucking christ.


Cause the person who runs the shop did NOTHING of that to her?

I mean she could have went to a coffee shop, It might not be like this everywhere but most places offer free wifi, and usually that includes free electricity. Instead she goes to the one place that requires you to pay for that service, and chooses to use force to get that service for free.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide, you've assumed these things:

1. Ths is an example of a double standard, because a man behaving this way would be treated as evil and creepy, while a woman doing this thing is respectable.

2. That this android fembot is not a person - which negates your first idea, since a person and a non-person are too different. We don't call an escaped tiger creepy. We catch it and shoot it if need be, and feel badly for it even if it killed someone, because it was supposed to be in a secure environment living its happy tiger life.

3. You read her as unapologetically sitting there, all up in his face after threatening him. Like she's purposelly being an asshat - like something se decided to do so she could dominate and terrorize him.

Why do you read that into this comic? Wht do you actually see there that supports ths interpretation.

If you want to argue about he comic, you have to understand that other people read this strip differently from you, and therefore don't see what you see. No use blaming people for something they aren't actually agreeing with (A double standard) when you don't know whether they agree or not. Try typing back what you think everyone is saying net time for clarification before akingyour arguments.
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