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2013-06-12: Beautiful Day
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10693
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
No, but you are making things up about me because I definitely did not do any of those things. But it seems when the propaganda train arrives, it never really leaves. And you know what the funny thing is, I would just have to link to it so people can read for themselves.

I didn't defend child porn, I didn't "mock women afraid of rape."

You can thank ShadowCell for all of the people who will inevitably take your side now, right? Unless we're right (and we've done this before, and we are right), in which case you should just leave and never come back.

... let's wait and see!
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 729
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For FSM's sake I want Guest to read through the archives of http://thisisthinprivilege.tumblr.com/ and tell me that women don't have it worse off. Don't worry, there's still ones from men and a lot are actually gender-neutral. Actually I basically recommend everyone read it so they can see why BMI is bullshit and the sort of crap fat people have to put up with just for being fat and all the misconceptions surrounding it.

Height is also correlated to wage and I think that's an often-overlooked prejudice. http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/everyday_economics/2002/03/short_changed.html This isn't a perfect source, because it basically says that it thinks that the whole reason for the prejudice is that short people don't have as much self esteem and so don't get out there as much or something. If you can get over the fact that the guy running this blog http://thesocialcomplex.tumblr.com takes himself a little too seriously and perhaps complains a bit much about women not liking short men, he does have some good points.
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tricksterson



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 446

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:
fritterdonut wrote:
I kinda have to question panel 2.

As someone who's dealt with people constantly commenting on my size and deciding it was an invitation to list off their favorite exercise tips and what foods to avoid (often while I'm trying to eat said foods), I don't really see it as something that specifically targets women. I mean, women are expected to be thin, but on the flip side, guys are expected to be ripped and have a 6-pack.


Monkey McDermott wrote:
hahahahah no they aren't


Tell that to the people who called me a fat fuck on a daily basis for a solid 5 years, and only stopped in senior year because they were scared of me at that point.

Don't let the troll bother you.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10693
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ennis wrote:
Height is also correlated to wage and I think that's an often-overlooked prejudice. http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/everyday_economics/2002/03/short_changed.html This isn't a perfect source, because it basically says that it thinks that the whole reason for the prejudice is that short people don't have as much self esteem and so don't get out there as much or something. If you can get over the fact that the guy running this blog http://thesocialcomplex.tumblr.com takes himself a little too seriously and perhaps complains a bit much about women not liking short men, he does have some good points.

No, height is definitely correlated with a lot of benefits. Malcolm Gladwell refers to this in Blink when discussing the Warren Harding error. That's why the authors of this study controlled for it. That is, they used statistics to make sure the effect was present at differing heights (there's a big table that shows the correlation of height to income).
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Twenty-Fifth Night



Joined: 15 Apr 2013
Posts: 41
Location: Dreamland

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I came back to the forums today and saw this thread, and I was going "HOLY SHIT it's 8 pages long already?" and then I saw that Guest was here.

If there's one good thing about trolls, it's that they certainly liven up the conversation!
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
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Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen, yeah I wasn't saying that they didn't control for it, it was more a spin-off. Basically height discrimination makes me sad because I'm really short Sad

I was thinking, the stereotypes of a big (successful) businessman is often a fat man, whereas a successful business women is usually imagined to be extremely thin, wearing heels, makeup etc. So a large man with a high-up position isn't really that challenging, but since people practically never conceive of big women being successful in that way they will tend to discriminate because she "doesn't look right for the job".
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merest



Joined: 15 May 2011
Posts: 325

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ennis wrote:
. So a large man with a high-up position isn't really that challenging, but since people practically never conceive of big women being successful in that way they will tend to discriminate because she "doesn't look right for the job".


I dare say that feminine rotundity is disadvantagous, if it causes women to be passed over for promotion, to have their work valued less than the work presented by the cutely slender, and so on. Still, as a small point of utility, though not making up for the misfortune, there are situations in the business world where it can be advantageous to be underestimated.


Last edited by merest on Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10693
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I work with a woman who is 6 feet tall and I was talking to her about it kind of off the cuff - kind of a "is it hard to find pants that fit?" thing - and she said, "Yeah, pants, shoes... dates." Apparently guys are intimidated by her and it makes a lot of typical social situations awkward (she mentioned dancing).

Random segue about societal opinions of proper height for the two genders... at least that one is genetic, though.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

merest wrote:
Despite that, there are situations in the business world where it can be advantageous to be underestimated.

This seems like a general maxim, and we all know what Lord Macaulay said about general maxims.

Can you turn it into a specific point?
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merest



Joined: 15 May 2011
Posts: 325

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
merest wrote:
Despite that, there are situations in the business world where it can be advantageous to be underestimated.

This seems like a general maxim, and we all know what Lord Macaulay said about general maxims.

Can you turn it into a specific point?


People are often careless when dealing with someone whom they think is disorganised, unintelligent, or weak-willed, for they feel superior to them. Stoutness can suggest all of these traits to someone possessing the common prejudice against such things.

A slender, attractive woman can pretend to be a ditz, and has the added weapon of her beauty. An obese woman can also play on her appearance, so that she is more underestimated than she would otherwise have been. I merely suggest that a bit of acting - whether to make beauty seem an empty shell, or to make stoutness reflect a similar heavy-dullness of mind - can disguise a negotiator痴 capacity for doing the unexpected, or the fact that she is ambitious and willing to exploit things casually shown to someone thought unimaginative.

Not everyone is capable of using such tactics. Nor might they wish to use them, given that they involve duplicity, and are only appropriate for some areas of the business world.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10693
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooookay. Not really turning it into a point, just expanding on the maxim. People can sometimes turn weaknesses into strengths. Yes.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3321
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An obese woman can crawl away into mental darkness thanks to the years of abuse and the 'going nowhere' feeling life gives you when society at large is saying you are less than worthless.

And then the lack of opportunity for advancement and prejudice from doctors can give them an opportunity avoid mental or physical healthcare, leading to bad health.

YAY OPPRESSION.
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Dennis J. Squidbunny



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3714
Location: AUSTRALIA YOU FAKIR

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merest is probably my favourite poster that is most likely a robot that runs on a paste made if the brains of community college literature professors. Arthain is close, but I still think you're the best.

Fritter I'm sorry you got made fun of, I got bullied all through school as well even though I'm slim and beautiful. I just feel that the sort of body shame men and boys cop vs what women and girls cop are not that comparable. I do know of young men who developed and suffered eating disorders, but the sheer numbers if girls and women who suffer real and debilitating disorders directly related to body shaming is just horrific.

I know Guest has taken what you were saying and is using it for his own goofy means. You can't compare oppression over Body weight vs oppression over gender. It's like when Revenge of the Nerds compared need oppression to black oppression.
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Dennis J. Squidbunny



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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Location: AUSTRALIA YOU FAKIR

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also been without home Internet for a few weeks so sorry if everything I'm saying is even more mangled than usual.

To preempt your question, Guest, I come from the country where we don't defend child porn. Thanks for asking!
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 1174
Location: Hedonism

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dennis J. Squidbunny wrote:
Fritter I'm sorry you got made fun of, I got bullied all through school as well even though I'm slim and beautiful. I just feel that the sort of body shame men and boys cop vs what women and girls cop are not that comparable. I do know of young men who developed and suffered eating disorders, but the sheer numbers if girls and women who suffer real and debilitating disorders directly related to body shaming is just horrific.


Reasonable response that I can agree with. I guess it's hard to keep an objective view of the matter when it has personally affected you.
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