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2013-06-13: Post-Patriarchal Society
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1017

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abby's dangerously close to overthrowing Buddha as my favourite character. She's just awesome.
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Cactuar



Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Rothide et al

IDK I don't really have a problem with thong panties for tweens? As someone who's always had problems with, ahem, creep, I can understand deciding that if the fabric is going to inevitably end up there anyway, there might as well be as little of it as possible. ..and of course, then there's the panty-line issue.

OTOH I do think it's a problem the way society sexualizes everything about a woman's body such that she can't make any clothing choices at all without people assuming it's about teh sex in some way or another. People should be able to actually make clothing choices around comfort without everyone and their mother's cousin's gold partner piling a ton of assumptions about their character on top of it.
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Night Spade



Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Posts: 1175
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's funny how that in a time period where we as a society are extra freaked out by the possibility that there are 'peds' under the beds, yet the fashion industry are pushing more and more sexy clothing to pre-teens... seriously... WTF!
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Zorlond



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xanthe wrote:
A post-patriarchal society where women are liberated from structural oppression.


Interesting. Notice how she didn't ask for an end to structural oppression in general. She just wants women to not be the target of it. Either she doesn't realize men suffer under their own kind of structured oppression, or she simply doesn't care.

Also, she's focused on the end of 'the patriarchy' without offering any alternative to replace it. That's short-sighted and ignorant, since any loss of a societal structure will, sooner or later, be replaced by something else (or even replaced by exactly what was lost in the first place). Is she implying a matriarchy as a replacement? Possibly, but without actual statement, there's no hint, and absolutely no limit to how the devil would twist the contract. That's the real sign that Xanthe cannot carefully think out the results of her beliefs. Or at the very least cannot think of how the devil can, will, and does screw every contract up however the hell he likes.
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1017

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zorlond wrote:
Xanthe wrote:
A post-patriarchal society where women are liberated from structural oppression.


Interesting. Notice how she didn't ask for an end to structural oppression in general. She just wants women to not be the target of it. Either she doesn't realize men suffer under their own kind of structured oppression, or she simply doesn't care.

Also, she's focused on the end of 'the patriarchy' without offering any alternative to replace it. That's short-sighted and ignorant, since any loss of a societal structure will, sooner or later, be replaced by something else (or even replaced by exactly what was lost in the first place). Is she implying a matriarchy as a replacement? Possibly, but without actual statement, there's no hint, and absolutely no limit to how the devil would twist the contract. That's the real sign that Xanthe cannot carefully think out the results of her beliefs. Or at the very least cannot think of how the devil can, will, and does screw every contract up however the hell he likes.

I see potential for a shitstorm right here. Better go find my umbrella.
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BiQ



Joined: 27 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you could end structural oppression by sacrificing yourself to eternal damnation, would that be a noble thing to do, by the way?

Given D's way to twist all contracts he does, it would probably be a bad idea. Not to mention that the next dudebro coming along would probably just make a deal to have the oppression back because he wants people to be cool with his being dudebro. Not to mention any martyrdom stuff doesn't necessarily ring too well anyway with me. Not to mention that buying anything with infinite pricetag (eternal suffering) is always a lousy deal.
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The immortality of the soul never fit quite well with me. I don't care how good Heaven may be, it HAS to get boring after the first millennium.
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are Xanthe's glasses/goggles getting smaller or are her eyebrows getting bigger?

Catel wrote:
So Xanthe was ready to sell her soul to the Devil for her dream ?


No, she was just answering Absinthe's question, and the question wasn't what would she sell her soul for, but what would she like.

"I would like? I would like a trip to Europe..." -- Daffy Duck
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 691
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zorlond wrote:
Xanthe wrote:
A post-patriarchal society where women are liberated from structural oppression.


Interesting. Notice how she didn't ask for an end to structural oppression in general. She just wants women to not be the target of it. Either she doesn't realize men suffer under their own kind of structured oppression, or she simply doesn't care.

Also, she's focused on the end of 'the patriarchy' without offering any alternative to replace it. That's short-sighted and ignorant, since any loss of a societal structure will, sooner or later, be replaced by something else (or even replaced by exactly what was lost in the first place). Is she implying a matriarchy as a replacement? Possibly, but without actual statement, there's no hint, and absolutely no limit to how the devil would twist the contract. That's the real sign that Xanthe cannot carefully think out the results of her beliefs. Or at the very least cannot think of how the devil can, will, and does screw every contract up however the hell he likes.


I don't think the result would be a matriarchy. Also it depends on how exactly the wish of "women being liberated from structural oppression" is achieved. Because you would have to get rid of misogyny, and if you did that, then pretty much all the negative results associated with men showing femininity would also have to disappear. "You throw like a girl" "pussy bitch" "that's girly, ew" etc. as insults wouldn't make sense if women were seen as equal to men and free of structural oppression. It would be like like insulting someone for having blue eyes and insisting they should have another colour, it would just be silly. Men could stay home and be dads if they wanted while the wife worked and no one would think any less of her or him. Custody cases would go to whoever could best care for the child and there would be no assumption of the mother automatically being somehow "suited" to raising children because that attitude ties in with biological sexism which is necessarily tied to structural oppression.

I'm not really sure how the Devil could twist the contract. Part of structural oppression is attitudes and bigotry, so it's not like he could do something like magically give women half of the jobs and equal pay then turn around and be like "but every man you meet will hate you and want to kill you!" because that attitude would mean that structural oppression was still in place, and the magic equal world would quickly devolve because of it.

Anyway, after all that I basically agree with Ronald, I think it was just a quip. Like if a friend asked me what I wanted for my birthday and I replied "a job".
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2642
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember watching Madoka Magica where the girls pretty much sell their souls for special powers. My boyfriend joked to me that I shouldn't sell my soul just to get my mom out of her coma. Reality struck me that if I got the opportunity, I would. I actually would. I was that upset.

(No worries, my mom got out of coma ages ago and she's doing fine)
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3147
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a problem with the people who keep marketing sexy things to a younger and younger crowd, because I don't want them pushing this idea, "YOU MUST BE SEXAY" on twelve year olds. They don't have to market that way, but they choose to - and I think there is certainly something wrong when companies market underwear that says stuff like 'eye candy' to little kids.

The twelve year olds buying the stuff is another matter.
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king rat



Joined: 20 Jan 2013
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Devil was still at his own booth, he would of course accept her wish!

He has so many ways to subvert it...

such as, say, a sudden spike in women who die or are permanently crippled as they are forced into jobs they don't have the physical strength for, because they are considered equal to men in all ways?

Remember, I didn't say logical, or socially progressive, I said the DEVIL was interpreting this wish.
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Onimaru



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deciding to dodge most of the big controversy in this comic, I'd just like to ask, did anybody else imagine the Malevolent Twitch of Xanthe's Eye in the last panel?
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Flavius Maximus



Joined: 07 May 2011
Posts: 799
Location: The Wrong side of the Reality Zone Sign

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xanthe you quite picking on Absinthe. Smile
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Zorlond



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ennis wrote:
"You throw like a girl"

Mythbusters recently tested this. It didn't hold up as an insult. (men and women, when told to throw with their off-hand, threw effectively the same in motions and result, which proved that differences with their primary hand was due to society, verified by bringing in a pair of professional pitchers who threw exactly the same... besides which, the girls were smoking the boys in accuracy with their primary hand)
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