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Define "feminism" please
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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This one's dedicated to Heretical Rants.



butts
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Forlorn Devil



Joined: 21 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer your question Alpha, I decided to comment because I'm fatigued by the constant hammering of this feminist message Tat has been pushing on his readers. I like the strip and I'm open minded about the message but sometimes his message isn't one I agree with and I'm making that known. To put it simply, I'm venting my frustration, though I didn't expect any sympathy. My past experiences on this forum are pretty much my experience now, anyone not in line with the group is ostracized. *shrug*
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forlorn Devil wrote:
To answer your question Alpha, I decided to comment because I'm fatigued by the constant hammering of this feminist message Tat has been pushing on his readers. I like the strip and I'm open minded about the message but sometimes his message isn't one I agree with and I'm making that known. To put it simply, I'm venting my frustration, though I didn't expect any sympathy. My past experiences on this forum are pretty much my experience now, anyone not in line with the group is ostracized. *shrug*


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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Forlorn Devil.

Sorry you're having such a bad time.

(you did bring this on yourself, mind you)

But listen, you might not have as much of a problem as you think you do.

Feminism doesn't necessarily involve the absolute abolition of the traditional gender roles.

Feminism is about giving people the choice not to live by those gender roles. To remove the societal pressures placed upon people to "live up" to their genders.

But you know what? There's nothing preventing people from embracing their traditional gender roles if they want to - it's just that they are given the choice not to if they don't want to.

You can't force other people to conform to gender roles though. Your rights end where another person's rights begin.

See, that's the thing. People can choose for themselves.

That's acceptable, isn't it?


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Alpha Aim



Joined: 19 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, so you were still reading after you left. I've always had the idea that people who leave the forums stop reading alltogether ( not really sure why though).

I see now, thanks for answering.

EDIT: Holy crap, even Istancow's getting serious Shocked

Apologies, this was all I could find.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have literally the entire internet at your disposal. If you honestly wanted to learn a thing, you would learn the thing. If you want to pick a fight and feel like a martyr for it, you would come into a feminist friendly space and whine about how much you hate feminism.

If you're even the tiniest bit surprised at the outcome, you clearly haven't been paying attention.
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Forlorn Devil



Joined: 21 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Istancow, yes I know I brought it on myself and Sansally, I wasn't the least bit surprised. I simply did with the original poster said and didn't look anything up, giving my preconceived notions of feminism. I guess that was a trap set by the original poster?

Anyway, thank you Istancow for your response, and I fully agree with you. I think maybe some of you didn't read my original post to the end, as I had said stepping out of those roles was fine as well. In fact I encouraged my wife to seek more education and become a teacher or some other profession of her choosing, but her goal in life is to be a stay at home Mom, which leads me to goto college myself and try to make more money to achieve that goal.
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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MONOCLE MOUSTACHE CUPCAKES

WANT


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Dennis J. Squidbunny



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forlorn Devil wrote:
Istancow, yes I know I brought it on myself and Sansally, I wasn't the least bit surprised. I simply did with the original poster said and didn't look anything up, giving my preconceived notions of feminism. I guess that was a trap set by the original poster?

Anyway, thank you Istancow for your response, and I fully agree with you. I think maybe some of you didn't read my original post to the end, as I had said stepping out of those roles was fine as well. In fact I encouraged my wife to seek more education and become a teacher or some other profession of her choosing, but her goal in life is to be a stay at home Mom, which leads me to goto college myself and try to make more money to achieve that goal.


The issue, you warbling, flatulant knob, is that you started by saying you don't know what feminism is but because of Sinfest you hate it, which is a great way to start an argument if you're ten. But feminism is not the new band your older sister loves.

But then you make an incoherant post where you ramble about traditional roles, and how they're great but also you don't need them and MEN AND WOMEN IS PARTNERSHIP. I mean, do the 'traditional gender roles' you see nothing wrong with include grand traditions such as marital rape? Because I'm pretty sure when it comes to tradition you don't get to pick and choose which bits are tradition and which aren't.

Child marriage is a marriage tradition, is that okay?

I don't besmirch your wife for wanting to stay at home and raising kids etc. while you go out to work, but isn't it nice that you gave her the choice? Do you understand that not every woman is given that option? Wouldn't it be nice if all women had ownership over their own lives, just like you do? Is that something to hate?
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Istancow



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's to avoiding situations that could easily lead you to making an ass of yourself.


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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:26 pm    Post subject: Re: often a serious often response because often often often Reply with quote

Ennis wrote:
Heretical Rants wrote:
Old Sinfest often did make me feel uncomfortable, but it had enough good points for me to read past that. I think Tat looked back at some of his old work and it made him uncomfortable, too.


Anyway, feminism is, generally, a social movement for equality that focuses on women's issues. At least, it should be that simple. It often isn't. When it isn't, it often gets horrible.


Like when some people decide that trans women might not count as women and claim that feminism doesn't have to include them. I just ragequit my university's skeptics group because of people trying to "debate" that sort of thing, claiming when I was angry and told them that that sort of "up for debate" attitude is what gets trans people killed because their genders aren't seen as legitimate that I was "arguing from emotion and being too angry" and then refusing to look at links I posted to educate them when they asked because "of course they'll agree with you". Demanding I educate them personally. Even though they had engaged with exactly zero of the points I had made, instead trying to make it about the semantics of what "debate" means because if everything isn't up for debate then you're not a true skeptic! Ignoring the fact that they weren't even questioning their own assumptions. Then someone posted a video saying the gender wage gap was a myth by an MRA who had written books about rape being "exciting" and I just peaced the fuck out of there because you know when someone unironically posts something by a shitbag like that, you are not in a good place.

</rant>


I have not read the rest of the thread yet, but omg you are my new best friend (for about five minutes anyway.)
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Zhuinden



Joined: 02 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Thread Starter, please refer to this thread for a second, although it became a mundane discussion about economics for some unknown reason.
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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dennis J. Squidbunny wrote:
I don't besmirch your wife for wanting to stay at home and raising kids etc. while you go out to work, but isn't it nice that you gave her the choice? Do you understand that not every woman is given that option? Wouldn't it be nice if all women had ownership over their own lives, just like you do? Is that something to hate?


Forlorn Devil, I think deep down in your soul of souls, you agree with all of this. I think you are a good person who thinks everyone has the right to choose how to live without robbing others of that choice.

And I think you will ignore the urge to be angry about being called a warbling, flatulent knob and realize what a clever and creative insult it is.
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Istancow



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zhuinden wrote:
Mr Thread Starter, please refer to this thread for a second, although it became a mundane discussion about economics for some unknown reason.


I take full responsibility for turning that thread into a mundane discussion of economics, and I am fully prepared to pay the thread-hijacking fines.

(pay no attention to my attempted hijacking of the current thread)


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Forlorn Devil



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dennis, I think the communication breakdown here, besides your insults, is our individual definitions of "traditional role". I come from a classic Italian American family setting and "traditional role" means to me the woman is the family matriarch, homemaker, mother and the father is the patriarch, provider, worker. Classic 50s Americana, not Sharia Muslim tradition. And in my context of what "traditional roles" stands for, I see no problems with those roles and also believe its the choice of the individual to be in those roles. I don't view women in those roles as unequal to their counterparts and in any good family there is a partnership between the man and woman. Hope that clears things up.
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