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6/25 — Texas Filibuster, Prop 8 and DOMA unconstitutional
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

public shaming is one of those tumblrs that's great to read but then you become sick because these people exist
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fritterdonut



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ITT: Things get freaky.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm thrivin here

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Yinello



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone did an oops somewhere.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
public shaming is one of those tumblrs that's great to read but then you become sick because these people exist

I don't get that feeling because I can't really get away from it anyway.
What Public Shaming does for me is give me a temporary boost from schadenfreude and then make me feel guilty about reading something that draws worldwide attention to hapless twits. Yeah, they're posting on the internet anyway and yes their opinions are literally ridiculous as in they should be ridiculed, but it still doesn't sit right with me after a few minutes.
Doesn't stop me from checking it out every once in a while.
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone mind explaining why polygamy should be illegal in light of DOMA?
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because polygamy, bestiality, pedophilia and any other sexual/romantic/relationship stuff conservative Christians don't like is clearly the same.

Just like how anyone who isn't a Christian is automatically a devil worshipper.

Edit: Misread that as 'legal' and thought this was somekinda irony thing.
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Last edited by stripeypants on Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Snorri



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thy Brilliance wrote:
Someone mind explaining why polygamy should be illegal in light of DOMA?


Why should it be legal? Surely the government is not obligated to come up with new forms of contracts when that shit isn't even asked for?


The argument for gay marriage is a rather simple one of equality. If I may enter into a legal contract with 1 consenting adult then it's discriminatory to forbid me from picking any consenting adult. Regardless of whether they're black or old or of the same sex. Marriage is a legal contract. Ergo, I get to marry a gay.


The government is allowed to say I may not enter into any contract with more than one person. That's perfectly fine. I do not have an argument from equality against that, since the government has the right to determine the form of any contract. Can't sell my house twice either.

Now, I can certainly argue that the government should make a new form of contract that allows for more than 2 participants and looks like marriage. But A) I have little justification other than my really wanting it (the thing with DOMA certainly doesn't give me anything, do you even know what the thing with DOMA is?) and B) I can't actually conceive of a practical way to design such a contract. Most old ways are completely unfair. I encourage you to find a way though.
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Snorri



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really, it's proper to realise that "gay marriage" supporters aren't arguing for a new form of marriage. Much like "interracial marriage" supporters weren't arguing for a new form of marriage.

They're arguing for getting rid of a restriction on who you get to marry.

And all other shit analogies for the slippery slope usually miss the fact that we're still dealing with contracts. Only consenting adults can sign contracts. You can sell your house to a gay person, you can't sell your house to a dog. (Even if it's a particularly clever dog.)
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Thy Brilliance



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
Because polygamy, bestiality, pedophilia and any other sexual/romantic/relationship stuff conservative Christians don't like is clearly the same.

Just like how anyone who isn't a Christian is automatically a devil worshipper.


That's not what I asked.

Forget about the retarded dog fuckers for now. We all know that's a lost cause, and it would be a waste of time to discuss it further.

I am simply curious in your opinion of more realistic consequences of these events.

Please explain what is stopping polygamy from becoming a legal process, and how you feel about it.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the reason government cares about marriage is because it is a legal contract that gives people legal rights and responsibilities. so when two people get married, they can file joint tax returns (which may result in lower tax rates); they become the other person's next of kin, which gives them rights to inherit property, to make medical decisions (if the other is incapacitated), it gives them privacy rights about communications between them (that's the whole wife-can't-be-compelled-to-testify thing).

as a two-way relationship, this is relatively straightforward. if it becomes a multi-way relationship, things get more complicated. which person has ultimate power of attorney? if there is a dispute about medical care, who gets the final voice?

i'm sure there are legal ways to resolve this, but those are the issues i see. there is also the cultural issue that polygamy frequently involved marriage with under-age women, and in general occurs in cultures where women are seen as subordinate to men, which is why the legal issues haven't historically been an issue (because in those cultures, women didn't have many legal rights of any kind). in a culture where women are working towards legal equality with men, and certainly have legal equality with other women, things get more complicated.
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CTrees



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Preventing legally married couples from receiving benefits merely because they are gay is discrimination based on sexual orientation, which is a no-go. It's a protected class. This is the same as banning interracial marriage - race is a protected class, so you can't do it. However, being a polygamist/polyandrist is *not* a class granted special protections fromdiscrimination, so barring them from recieving the same benefits as those granted to people in two-member marriages. This is, actually, quite the same as why this won't lead to legalization of bestiality - zoophilia is not protected.
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Michael



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has, I'd hazard, brought you closer to legalising _gay_ bestial polygamist marriage.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plus, animals can't enter into contracts. neither can children, which is why all this stuff about gays marrying children is nonsense.

it is interesting that conservatives apparently believe that if you want to have sex with something, you must marry it.

(and i'd forgotten about the benefits - that adds a new complication, how you distribute benefits.)

but what makes people a protected class? gays and minorities don't seem to have a big history of being protected...
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Michael



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yah
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