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6/25 — Texas Filibuster, Prop 8 and DOMA unconstitutional
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Snorri



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:

but what makes people a protected class? .

Law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class


One should note that sexual orientation is not actually a protected class based on any passed law.* Rather, a number of court decisions have effectively given that status by basically working around it.

Of course, this isn't really about the DOMA ruling. Weirdly, that seems to be a states rights issue. As in, when a state grants same-sex marriage the federal government can't deny it. Because that would be a dick move, since the federal government does recognize opposite-sex marriage given by a state.

I find your country and it's workings weird and confusing, but this is also the reason why this decision does not obligate any state to allow same-sex marriage.





*that is, a federal one.
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Snorri



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

also, whenever I feel down about this shit I just look at wikipedia and go oh wait whaaaat.


Loving v. Virginia wrote:
Despite the Supreme Court's decision, anti-miscegenation laws remained on the books in several states, although the decision had made them unenforceable. In 2000, Alabama became the last state to adapt its laws to the Supreme Court's decision, by removing a provision prohibiting mixed-race marriage from its state constitution through a ballot initiative. 60% of voters voted for the removal of the anti-miscegenation rule, and 40% against


good old Alabama. They'll get there eventually...
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CTrees



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look at when states ratified Constitutional amendments some time. For instance, when Mississippi ratified the 13th Amendment (the one banning slavery). Fun stuff.
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Felgraf



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snorri wrote:
also, whenever I feel down about this shit I just look at wikipedia and go oh wait whaaaat.


Loving v. Virginia wrote:
Despite the Supreme Court's decision, anti-miscegenation laws remained on the books in several states, although the decision had made them unenforceable. In 2000, Alabama became the last state to adapt its laws to the Supreme Court's decision, by removing a provision prohibiting mixed-race marriage from its state constitution through a ballot initiative. 60% of voters voted for the removal of the anti-miscegenation rule, and 40% against


good old Alabama. They'll get there eventually...


My fiance's parents actually had to travel to DC to get married, because at the time, *MISCEGENATION WAS STILL ILLEGAL IN VIRGINIA*. At least, the laws were still on the books.

I'm not going to lie, I've actually been *pleased* by that whole reaction some people had to the inter-racial couple on the Cheerios commercial. The fact that the simple *Existence* of my soon-to-be-marriage (and hypothetical future children) fills some people with *that much* anger just makes me a weeeee bit gleeful, for some weird reason.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snorri wrote:
mouse wrote:

but what makes people a protected class? .

Law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class


so potentially zoophilia could become a protected class.

i still don't think we need to worry about animals entering into marriage contracts.

i've been reading Nixonland, currently in the part about the 1968 election - and there have been some real, substantial changes since then. of course, things like the VRA acted as a sort of ratchet, so things could only move forward, not back; i guess we will find out how much things can slip without it. but there has been a real change in public opinion, particularly among younger people - as the old farts die off, i can only hope that the real regressive actions will taper off, as well.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zoophiles might become protected (from persecution), but they could never marry or legally have sex with an animal, because animals are incapable of consenting.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that, too.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would pedophiles ever become a protected class, then? This is weird legal territory that I am confused by.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, again - children can't consent, and can't be held to contracts - so even if pedophiles became a protected class, they still couldn't legally have sex with or marry children. so you would be protecting the right to ..... want to have sex with children but not act on that desire? so not sure how much protection that would offer.

that is leaving aside the issue of whether anyone, ever, would want to protect pedophiles. i would think the only basis would be proving that it is a mental illness, so the pedophile can't help himself - but it still wouldn't give them a right to hurt children.

i wonder more about zoophiles, and how much the inability of animals to give consent might be an issue. after all, we do lots of things to animals that they don't consent to - holding them as pets, performing sterilization operations, doing euthanasia. much of that can be (or at least is) justified on a similar basis to doing medical procedures on children without their consent - the child/animal can't understand enough to give consent, and the procedure is done for their benefit - depends on where you want to go down that road, i suppose. how much of the opposition that people have to a man having sex with a horse (for example) is outrage about to the fact that the horse did not give consent, and how much is feelings of disgust at the concept of bestiality?
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They haven't given up yet.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

much of that can be (or at least is) justified on a similar basis to doing medical procedures on children without their consent - the child/animal can't understand enough to give consent, and the procedure is done for their benefit


with domestic animals and work animals alike, gonadectomies are not done for the benefit of the animal, they are are done to modify the behavior of the animal to something more "suitable," as judged by the same people who tie them up and leave them alone in the back yard barking all dang day long because they are alone and the water bowl is empty

if we simply wanted to do population control, for the reduction of suffering and whatnot, there are simpler, less invasive, less devitalizing options that we would consider first

Quote:
we do lots of things to animals that they don't consent to - holding them as pets, performing sterilization operations, doing euthanasia...


...severely restricting their movement...
...feeding them uncomfortable amounts of corn while their movement is restricted by the sheer quantity of their fellows that have been crammed into the same space...
...burning off their beaks and clipping their wings...
...artificially inseminating them...
...burning, freezing, or cutting scars denoting ownership of them into their living hides...
...rectally probing the uterus for pregnancy, at a certain risk of injury to them, in order to better determine how they may be sold...
...holding them up by the back legs and slitting their throats so that we may consume their fleshmeats...

lots of things that I have trouble condoning
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
They haven't given up yet.

REJECTION
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Mr Gary



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read Sam's comments on friendbook and similar relief on other friends news aggregates. Regarding the filibuster, that is. And yay for that nonsense bill succeeding. But naively enough can't help but feel that whatever the subject, one person or party blocking the floor for half a day so a vote can not take place isn't the finest example of democracy in action I ever saw.

We're allowed to love filibuster when they circumvent a vote but give us a lovely result?
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Mr Gary



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

* bill not succeeding. Typing from phone.

But who was phone??!!!?
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Mr Gary



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also I don't understand what a 'rape kit' is. Rope & gloves? In the UK we give our rape victims - mainly ladies, btw. Women, ey? Not safe to let them out anywhere, bless - anyway so we take rape victims and do the right thing by them. We lock them in an interview room with two aggressive men and ask them demeaning questions. Then when the poor dears are done we get a lady officer - they prefer the term 'female', they say, but I think 'lady female' sounds redundant - to give the 'victim' some sweet tea and a biscuit. To steady her. Then we make sure she gets home okay by walking her to the nearest bus stop.
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