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7/1/2013 Calligraphy 42
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6632

PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Samsally wrote:
I'm pretty sure "willfully ignore unjust things" is a pretty horrible way to manage anger and/or affect change.


I'm pretty sure anger at unjust situations has been the catalyst for the majority of social changes for the positive actually.


Eeeyup.
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merest



Joined: 15 May 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
merest wrote:
If judgement is a type of choice, emotions can be chosen.


false. judgements may or may not be a type of choice (you're basically saying you "choose" to see the color red when you look at a red stop sign by "assenting to external appearances," which is false; you do not choose what the color is that you see), but that has no bearing at all on whether emotions are "chosen." if emotions really depended on judgements then it would be impossible to speak of someone being "carried away by their passions," because they would in fact not be; they would be "carried away by their judgements" instead, and that would make the meaning of the phrase impossible.

anyways, i always find it strange how it's the fembot's anger or nique's anger or xanthe's anger or whatever that we have to philosophize away and complain about because of its "utility."


You're right to point out that we often feel things spontaneously, without judgement consciously playing a role. If someone sees a huge spider, they recoil. If they see a child falling down a well, they feel fear. Neither person paused to interpret the external appearance; they just did, and suddenly felt disgust/fear.

My response is that emotions sometimes have two stages: a 'first stirring' of emotion, which does not involve conscious judgement, and then a deliberate judgement about the external appearance, which will either confirm or dissent from one's earlier spontaneous judgement and emotion. The 'first stirring' is involuntary, but subject to revision. For example, a student on holidays might hear a bell ring, and suddenly worry that she is late for class - then remember that school is out. 'It must be a car horn,' she thinks, and calms down.

It is clear that the anger of the Sisterhood is meant to be both righteous anger, and a catalyst for good change. It could work that way. It's certainly possible. Rage isn't the only blueprint for change, though, nor, perhaps, in the real world, the best.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

merest wrote:
Rage isn't the only blueprint for change, though, nor, perhaps, in the real world, the best.


By all means, enlighten us. Bonus points if you can actually site historical evidence of massive social upheaval happening without a bunch of people being pissed as hell.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was that time a bunch of people sat down to tea and nonchalantly began an uprising by throwing crumpets at each other. They all gathered in the streets and shrugged their shoulders at authority. Authority wasn't really doing anything that day, so it said, "Sure, why not, I'll crush your revolution." And the people looked non-plussed as horses trampled over them. Then everyone went to work the next day and barely talked about it.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
There was that time a bunch of people sat down to tea and nonchalantly began an uprising by throwing crumpets at each other. They all gathered in the streets and shrugged their shoulders at authority. Authority wasn't really doing anything that day, so it said, "Sure, why not, I'll crush your revolution." And the people looked non-plussed as horses trampled over them. Then everyone went to work the next day and barely talked about it.


How about the other time when oppressed people all just sent nice letters written in cursive, politely asking their oppressors to consider not being so oppressive, and then the oppressors, impressed with the politeness and penmanship, thought, "Well, bully, I suppose we've got nothing to lose here! Why not?

And then they all lived happily ever after.
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Arkhron



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to be a spoilsport, but what about Gandhi and the Indian independence on 1946?

Or the Carnation Revolution* of portugal in 1974, where no shots nor violence was done.

I know that there are only two drops of peaceful politic/social change in the middle of a violent revolution sea, but hey, sometimes peace happens ^^




*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnation_Revolution
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you are conflating anger with violence.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
There was that time a bunch of people sat down to tea and nonchalantly began an uprising by throwing crumpets at each other. They all gathered in the streets and shrugged their shoulders at authority. Authority wasn't really doing anything that day, so it said, "Sure, why not, I'll crush your revolution." And the people looked non-plussed as horses trampled over them. Then everyone went to work the next day and barely talked about it.


How about the other time when oppressed people all just sent nice letters written in cursive, politely asking their oppressors to consider not being so oppressive, and then the oppressors, impressed with the politeness and penmanship, thought, "Well, bully, I suppose we've got nothing to lose here! Why not?

And then they all lived happily ever after.


Huh, I don't know how I could have forgotten that. Must be because I spend too much time brushing all those ponies I asked for as a kid and lolling about on my silk-covered feather bed wearing rose colored glasses.

Good for them!
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suggest Maverick for sentient fembots name.

1. She ignores the 3 rules that Isaac Asimov laid out, thus leading her to be considered a "Maverick"
2. She could be considered a Robot Master with those claws.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3. Iceman doesn't like her 'cuz she's dangerous
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Rothide



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
3. Iceman doesn't like her 'cuz she's dangerous


Don't dis on Iceman, he's a cool guy.
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Arkhron



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
you are conflating anger with violence.


Yeah, sorry. I forgot that anger leads to hate and hate leads to suffering. :P
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you're claiming Indians were not angry over things like forced registration in South Africa, or taxation by Britain in India, or the lack of control over their resources and economy? Or, what exactly are you claiming?
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arkhron wrote:
ShadowCell wrote:
you are conflating anger with violence.


Yeah, sorry. I forgot that anger leads to hate and hate leads to suffering. Razz


Much as I respect the Star Wars, Lucas filled Yoda's mouth with utter crap on that one.

One can be angry without hating. One can hate without anger.

Anger can lead to motivation that can end suffering.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
Arkhron wrote:
ShadowCell wrote:
you are conflating anger with violence.


Yeah, sorry. I forgot that anger leads to hate and hate leads to suffering. Razz


Much as I respect the Star Wars, Lucas filled Yoda's mouth with utter crap on that one.

One can be angry without hating. One can hate without anger.

Anger can lead to motivation that can end suffering.

I could rant for a while about flaws I find in the Jedi code.

I'll spare you all.

You're welcome.
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