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2013-07-06 Spot the Creepy Pornsick Stalker Dude
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redrose



Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
Meh, what ya gonna do? Live in fear, or just keep living your life.

I guess you could fight so that no one could rape anymore, but then that leads to the question, do we rape because of culture, or is it just an asshole that doesn't fucking care, and being told not to rape isn't going to stop him in the slightest?

It's like murderers, it doesn't matter that society says murder is wrong, they still decide to kill even though their culture tells them its the wrong thing to do. Of course this leads to the idea of violent media and videogames being the cause of the violence and killing, but that opens a whole new can of worms.

I guess she could choose to live in paranoia, or just not worry about it at all and live her life like she isn't going to be a statistic someday.


Maybe instead of saying, 'what can you do about it, it's going to happen anyway' we can try to put more effort on teaching that rape is wrong and how the only person we should be blaming is the rapist himself. How about put more effort into stopping victim blaming, 'cause no one is asking to be raped. Ever. How about we stop people from telling victims to just shut up and forget it withe excuses like, 'you were drunk' 'are you sure you weren't asking fir it' 'he's a good boy and didn't mean to'.

Or maybe we can stop all these cases of murder when you find out the guy was in jail for ten accounts of sexual assault and barely received a slap on his hand.

Maybe then women won't have to live in paranoia all the time.
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously the justice system doesn't think 'it's going to happen anyway'.
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tricksterson wrote:
Mr. Chicken wrote:
The dificulty of reading from up to down makes me think the voice of the patriarchy as a deep voice talking slowly. It kinda adds a dramatic effect.

More or less like an evil overlord.
I always hear it as asexual and vaguely mechanical.


I don't hear it at all. I don't imagine that there would be any voice at all behind those words. It's just an undertext to the Sinfestverse, something that you see, not hear. To give it an audible voice would subtract from the essence of its presence, in my opinion.
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
so pretty much she should be keeping an eye on Slick and Squig and Crim rather than the strangers


I guess you overlooked the "pornsick" part. If Crim looks at porn (aside from whatever he might sit through when watching TV with Slick and Squig), he's very close to the vest about it.
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merest



Joined: 15 May 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Creepy pornsick stalker dude' specifies he must be both creepy AND pornsick AND a stalker AND a dude. It is less likely for a person to have all four attributes than for someone to only have a few of them. Perhaps this thought would reassure Monique? On the other hand, perhaps in this universe there is a correlation between being a dude and pornsick, or pornsick and a stalker, or whatever else.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

merest wrote:
'Creepy pornsick stalker dude' specifies he must be both creepy AND pornsick AND a stalker AND a dude. It is less likely for a person to have all four attributes than for someone to only have a few of them. Perhaps this thought would reassure Monique? On the other hand, perhaps in this universe there is a correlation between being a dude and pornsick, or pornsick and a stalker, or whatever else.


And the point goes WHOOSH, it's a clean hit right over merest's head and over the back wall! And the crowd goes wild!

Point is: creepy pornsick stalker dude exists, and he could be anyone. She is living in a universe of Schroedinger's Creepy Pornsick Stalker Dudes.
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ChastMastr



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
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Location: Tampa Bay, Florida, US

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um... whenever we've had the up-and-down "Matrix" letters before, they've been messages from the Patriarchy, right? So does this actually mean that (while technically correct that anyone could be a "Creepy Pornsick Stalker Dude") the conclusion that one should live in a lifetime supply of paranoia is, in fact, from the bad guys? (It's certainly not empowering.)
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChastMastr wrote:
Um... whenever we've had the up-and-down "Matrix" letters before, they've been messages from the Patriarchy, right? So does this actually mean that (while technically correct that anyone could be a "Creepy Pornsick Stalker Dude") the conclusion that one should live in a lifetime supply of paranoia is, in fact, from the bad guys? (It's certainly not empowering.)


Yeah... and?

That doesn't mean suggesting people NOT be paranoid is the 'good' suggestion. Regardless of whether or not women are paranoid, the fact that the creepers are just that common is the actual problem. Paranoia is unpleasant, but sometimes necessary. Especially when the alternative is to be taken off guard and have to deal with the consequences.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChastMastr wrote:
Um... whenever we've had the up-and-down "Matrix" letters before, they've been messages from the Patriarchy, right? So does this actually mean that (while technically correct that anyone could be a "Creepy Pornsick Stalker Dude") the conclusion that one should live in a lifetime supply of paranoia is, in fact, from the bad guys? (It's certainly not empowering.)


that too is part of the Patriarchy: the low-level fear in the back of your head that something terrible could happen to you because of your actions (because you had that drink, or you went out with that person, or you dressed that way, or whatever), because there is always a Creepy Pornsick Stalker Dude out there, so you'd better act in such a way that you can't set him off.

well, that is pretty much "policing women's actions in a way that men's actions are not" in a nutshell.
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diagram12345



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It must be awfully depressing for a woman to live like this. I don't think I could have nearly as much fun and nearly as happy as I am every day if I spent all my time obsessing over men potentially being creepy stalkers all the time. I mean, if he shows stalker tendencies (I've felt threatened by stalker-types in the past) I'll remove myself, but other than that, I have more interesting things to ponder.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you trying to be extremely condescending, or does it just come natural?
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merest



Joined: 15 May 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
merest wrote:
'Creepy pornsick stalker dude' specifies he must be both creepy AND pornsick AND a stalker AND a dude. It is less likely for a person to have all four attributes than for someone to only have a few of them. Perhaps this thought would reassure Monique? On the other hand, perhaps in this universe there is a correlation between being a dude and pornsick, or pornsick and a stalker, or whatever else.


And the point goes WHOOSH, it's a clean hit right over merest's head and over the back wall! And the crowd goes wild!

Point is: creepy pornsick stalker dude exists, and he could be anyone. She is living in a universe of Schroedinger's Creepy Pornsick Stalker Dudes.


Sure, but 'He could be anyone' applies equally to serial murderers. The reason that the latter isn't something that most people worry about is that it is improbable than any given person is a serial murderer. So my point about the required presence of four criteria making it less likely for any given dude to be a creepy pornsick stalker seems to stand, as one mild point of consolation. Glass half full and all that. That said, I'm sure that your reading is closer to Mr. Ishida's intended one than mine. 'Schroedinger's Creepy Pornsick Stalker Dudes' is a quaint phrase.
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ChastMastr



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
that too is part of the Patriarchy: the low-level fear in the back of your head that something terrible could happen to you because of your actions (because you had that drink, or you went out with that person, or you dressed that way, or whatever), because there is always a Creepy Pornsick Stalker Dude out there, so you'd better act in such a way that you can't set him off.

well, that is pretty much "policing women's actions in a way that men's actions are not" in a nutshell.


That's in the direction of what I was wondering, yes. I don't think Tat is advising that paranoia is a good way to live life any more than ignorance is. As C.S. Lewis said, “He (the devil) always sends errors into the world in pairs--pairs of opposites...He relies on your extra dislike of one to draw you gradually into the opposite one. But do not let us be fooled. We have to keep our eyes on the goal and go straight through between both errors. We have no other concern than that with either of them.”

I would imagine the Devil of Sinfest to be figuring that if women can't be kept ignorant, then the next best thing is to make them fearful, rather than standing up to those things and making actual constructive changes.

I also don't think that any of the representative characters we've seen who seem to know (instinctively or otherwise) the right thing to do seem to be paranoid (blanking on her name now as it's 4:30 but the devil girl helping rescue Lily currently, for instance, or the grandmother, etc.)--the Sisterhood is strong, firm, direct, even heavy-handed at times in my view (I don't agree with them re porn, but then I have nothing to do with straight porn anyway...), but not paranoid, and they actually do things (like build the playground/park, defend/protect people, etc.)--but Monique is currently discovering all of this stuff for the first time, rather than having a long-term awareness of such matters. Some of it is natural--the shock of realizing that anyone could be a C.P.S.D., with no clear labels over their heads--but I think lifetime paranoia would be a really toxic way of handling that discovery long-term.
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ChastMastr



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

merest wrote:
Sure, but 'He could be anyone' applies equally to serial murderers. The reason that the latter isn't something that most people worry about is that it is improbable than any given person is a serial murderer. So my point about the required presence of four criteria making it less likely for any given dude to be a creepy pornsick stalker seems to stand, as one mild point of consolation. Glass half full and all that. That said, I'm sure that your reading is closer to Mr. Ishida's intended one than mine. 'Schroedinger's Creepy Pornsick Stalker Dudes' is a quaint phrase.


Um... it doesn't quite apply equally to serial murderers. I mean, yes, in the sense that anyone you meet might turn out to be one, but...

Look, I know Wikipedia isn't perfect, but:

Quote:
Nearly 90,000 people reported being raped in the United States in 2008. There is an arrest rate of 25%.[1] The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics states that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, and 99% of rapists are male.[2]


And:

Quote:
Rape prevalence among women in the U.S. (the percentage of women who experienced rape at least once in their lifetime so far) is in the range of 15%–20%, with different studies agreeing with each other. (National Violence against Women survey, 1995, found 17.6% prevalence rate;[5] a 2007 national study for the Department of Justice on rape found 18% prevalence rate.[6])


I mean, holy freaking crap. Ninety thousand in one year. Shocked 15%–20% of women experience rape. An arrest rate of only one out of four.

We don't have nine thousand, or nine hundred, perhaps not even ninety serial killings in one year in the US.

Compared to serial killing, well... serial killers are a tiny, tiny, nigh-microscopic number of people compared with the number of rapists. Add to that the sort of mindset re rape that our culture still has--no one, not ever, says, "Oh, they really wanted to be murdered," "They were asking for it," or "Why did they dress that way if they didn't want someone to kill and dismember them?" No one suggests that we look the other way about an accused serial killer because they're a famous sports athlete (O.J. Simpson was not accused of being a serial killer).

And so on, and so on, and so on...
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merest



Joined: 15 May 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChastMastr wrote:

I mean, holy freaking crap. Ninety thousand in one year. Shocked 15%–20% of women experience rape. An arrest rate of only one out of four.

We don't have nine thousand, or nine hundred, perhaps not even ninety serial killings in one year in the US.


I don't live in the US, but yes, that is an astonishing statistic. But I don't recall having mentioned rape at any point. My point was only that the more factors you specify (creepy, pornsick, stalker, dude), the fewer people will answer the description. But I think I was wrong to use the example of serial murderers in the first place, since, as you point out, they are very rare indeed - an example of extreme improbability - while 'creepy pornsick stalker dudes' (though I don't know the statistics on stalkers) are not.
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