welcome to the fest
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

2013-07-10: Defective 2
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Onimaru



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 212

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes there can be multiple reasons for why it might happen, and yes some of those reasons can be perfectly reasonable. But for that small minority that ARE abusing a system, they shouldn't be told it's OK because it's their choice.

The ones, the FEW should not be told it's fine because it's their body, they should be told to smarten the fuck up, bad decisions are bad decisions. And getting it paid for by others so you can continue to make bad decisions is not something to pass off as 'what business is it of yours'.

Are you saying if I see someone making poor choices I shouldn't voice concern? I shouldn't try and help them make better choices? I'm not saying take the choice away, but try to help?

Or do I just say hands off it's their right?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10953
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gibson22 wrote:
Dogen wrote:
Gibson22 wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
How do you know 'most' people getting abortions do it for 'convienience'? Wtf?

Like someone's on the phone and says,
"Oh, livia, darling, I just don't feel like having to wait several months till I can drink alcohol again. Such a bother! I think I'll pop off to Planned Parent and then to the bar. Want to come with?"

Seriously?


I admit, that last sentence really made me laugh. I really didn't mean to make it sound as lackadaisical as that. Also, granted, I spoke more in generalizations than actual research. However, this report here supports my claim. Now, an uncontrolled variable could very well be the fact that many women don't report rapes or didn't want to reveal that information to anyone, but I also highly doubt that all 957 in the last phase of the experiment were raped. The reasons listed, to me, are very much for convenience. The cited reasons for abortions are listed at the top of page 112. I found this through the magic of google, so I hadn't had a chance to read the entire article nor look for threats to validity, but I hope it at least makes assuming abortion for convenience sound plausible.

And sometimes, Stripey buddy, it does happen just like that.

How does "interferes with ability to care for dependents" and "cannot afford a baby" equal "convenience?" I can't afford a baby right now... it and I would both starve to death. How inconvenient.

Jesus Christ, just once I'd like to find another guy who talks about abortion and doesn't sound like a huge jackass.


Um, how about putting it up for adoption? When did that go off the table?

Who said it was off the table? No one, that's who. Keep it on the table. It's a big table. However, no one - not you, not me - should be able to tell someone else what to do with their own body, especially when it puts their life and health at risk.

At least half of these links apply to you as well as Onimaru.
Dogen wrote:
What privilege? The privilege to bear 100% of the risk of childbirth? The privilege to bear 100% of the physiological stress and strain on the body? It's easy to talk about privilege when you don't really have any skin in the game. When getting someone pregnant becomes as risky for you as it is for women, being a single mother doesn't virtually guarantee poverty, when 82% of custodial parents owed back child support are no longer women, and when we're not 47th in terms of maternal death rate (tucked between Hungary and Iran), then you can talk about privilege.

_________________
"Worse comes to worst, my people come first, but my tribe lives on every country on earth. Iíll do anything to protect them from hurt, the human race is what I serve." - Baba Brinkman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jody



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're not being told it's okay and to try and place restrictions on the system in the hopes of catching/punishing women that are getting abortions for reasons you don't like simply makes it more difficult for innocent women that have already gone thru enough pain.

This isn't hard to understand.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tekii



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 210

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Onimaru wrote:
Yes there can be multiple reasons for why it might happen, and yes some of those reasons can be perfectly reasonable. But for that small minority that ARE abusing a system, they shouldn't be told it's OK because it's their choice.

The ones, the FEW should not be told it's fine because it's their body, they should be told to smarten the fuck up, bad decisions are bad decisions. And getting it paid for by others so you can continue to make bad decisions is not something to pass off as 'what business is it of yours'.

Are you saying if I see someone making poor choices I shouldn't voice concern? I shouldn't try and help them make better choices? I'm not saying take the choice away, but try to help?

Or do I just say hands off it's their right?


So how do we judge which ones are abusing the system? What are your parameters for who gets to have as guilt free as possible abortions and who you get to lecture on their life choices?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10953
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Onimaru wrote:
Yes there can be multiple reasons for why it might happen, and yes some of those reasons can be perfectly reasonable. But for that small minority that ARE abusing a system, they shouldn't be told it's OK because it's their choice.

The ones, the FEW should not be told it's fine because it's their body, they should be told to smarten the fuck up, bad decisions are bad decisions. And getting it paid for by others so you can continue to make bad decisions is not something to pass off as 'what business is it of yours'.

Are you saying if I see someone making poor choices I shouldn't voice concern? I shouldn't try and help them make better choices? I'm not saying take the choice away, but try to help?

Or do I just say hands off it's their right?

You're not voicing concern. Concern sounds like this: "I'm not sure it's a good idea to get multiple abortions per year, how can we reduce that number?" What you're doing is attempting to dictate what women can do with their bodies, and pretend it's concern.

And yeah, it's their right, and while you may not always agree with how people exercise their rights that doesn't mean you get to infringe them.
_________________
"Worse comes to worst, my people come first, but my tribe lives on every country on earth. Iíll do anything to protect them from hurt, the human race is what I serve." - Baba Brinkman


Last edited by Dogen on Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:43 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jody



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tekii wrote:
So how do we judge which ones are abusing the system? What are your parameters for who gets to have as guilt free as possible abortions and who you get to lecture on their life choices?


Exactly. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jody



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Onimaru wrote:
Yes there can be multiple reasons for why it might happen, and yes some of those reasons can be perfectly reasonable. But for that small minority that ARE abusing a system, they shouldn't be told it's OK because it's their choice.

The ones, the FEW should not be told it's fine because it's their body, they should be told to smarten the fuck up, bad decisions are bad decisions. And getting it paid for by others so you can continue to make bad decisions is not something to pass off as 'what business is it of yours'.

Are you saying if I see someone making poor choices I shouldn't voice concern? I shouldn't try and help them make better choices? I'm not saying take the choice away, but try to help?

[b]Or do I just say hands off it's their right?

You're not voicing concern. Concern sounds like this: "I'm not sure it's a good idea to get multiple abortions per year, how can we reduce that number?" What you're doing is attempting to dictate what women can do with their bodies, and pretend it's concern.


This too. And on that front, how you reduce the number is to educate people and make sure they have plentiful access to birth control.

And yes, don't stigmatize abortion. Leave it the private matter that it is. And stop trying to live these women's lives for them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1055

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Onimaru wrote:
Yes there can be multiple reasons for why it might happen, and yes some of those reasons can be perfectly reasonable. But for that small minority that ARE abusing a system, they shouldn't be told it's OK because it's their choice.

The ones, the FEW should not be told it's fine because it's their body, they should be told to smarten the fuck up, bad decisions are bad decisions. And getting it paid for by others so you can continue to make bad decisions is not something to pass off as 'what business is it of yours'.

Are you saying if I see someone making poor choices I shouldn't voice concern? I shouldn't try and help them make better choices? I'm not saying take the choice away, but try to help?

Or do I just say hands off it's their right?

You're not voicing concern. Concern sounds like this: "I'm not sure it's a good idea to get multiple abortions per year, how can we reduce that number?" What you're doing is attempting to dictate what women can do with their bodies, and pretend it's concern.

And yeah, it's their right, and while you may not always agree with how people exercise their rights that doesn't mean you get to infringe them.


Not to mention be a hugely invasive judge-and-jury regarding the entirety of their life circumstances.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10953
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it's awfully fucking easy to judge people you don't know and have never met on the basis of one statistic and go, "Ah ha! You're living a sinful life!" It's the height of privilege to stand around, sharing none of the risk, and disparaging people for making the best of what's available to them as they see it. Really classy.
_________________
"Worse comes to worst, my people come first, but my tribe lives on every country on earth. Iíll do anything to protect them from hurt, the human race is what I serve." - Baba Brinkman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Onimaru



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 212

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never said to place restrictions just inform them that, this all started by my use of the word privilege, I never meant to imply that women having the right to Abortions was a Privilege it is their Right as it's their body.

What I meant by Privilege is the fact that in Canada they can get it done for free or at a massively reduced cost, and that is abusing the system.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jody



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Yeah, it's awfully fucking easy to judge people you don't know and have never met on the basis of one statistic and go, "Ah ha! You're living a sinful life!" It's the height of privilege to stand around, sharing none of the risk, and disparaging people for making the best of what's available to them as they see it. Really classy.


Yes. And to hijack a different discussion to do so is...well, I think I've covered that already. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jody



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Onimaru, in Canada, they've already paid for it with their taxes.

If anything, they are even MORE entitled to it. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Onimaru



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 212

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jody wrote:
Onimaru, in Canada, they've already paid for it with their taxes.

If anything, they are even MORE entitled to it. Smile


Yes that's true too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6182
Location: California

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

which would mean they're not abusing the system at all, they're just using it
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Onimaru



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 212

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes perhaps I did enter into the concept with a more closed mind that I had initially thought. I'll strive to be more understanding in the future.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Page 7 of 9

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group