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7/15 because why not
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Gibson22



Joined: 01 Jul 2012
Posts: 301

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
Don't get me wrong I don't hate the characters, they make my eye roll but I don't hate them... their just caricatures. I don't really agree with any of the stances beyond equality for all however. But meh, what cna you do.


Caricatures is a darn good word for it.
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Tekii



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

She didn't even admit to hating all men here, she just asked why she shouldn't. Though I think if she did then her target dummy would say Men on it instead of Misogynist.
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Jody



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not for nothing, guys that insist "not all men do it" is a suitable counter to systemic oppression are part of the problem. They refuse to accept or acknowledge the fact that they have benefited from the situation, thereby giving approval by default.
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Theia



Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 90
Location: California

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jody wrote:
Not for nothing, guys that insist "not all men do it" is a suitable counter to systemic oppression are part of the problem. They refuse to accept or acknowledge the fact that they have benefited from the situation, thereby giving approval by default.


What benefits are they getting?
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Jody



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What benefits do guys get in a culture that systemically oppresses women?

...you're kidding, yes?
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Theia



Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 90
Location: California

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it's more curiosity about specific benefits that men are getting than it is a denial that culture is systemically oppressing women.

EDIT: was I conveying some aggressive tone in my previous comment? The incredulous, are-you-serious tone of your response wasn't very nice Sad
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Valerie



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oooooh, that was the wrong way to responnnnd.

"I don't hate men, I hate my oppressors."
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valerie wrote:
Oooooh, that was the wrong way to responnnnd.

"I don't hate men, I hate my oppressors."


Not much coming from me, but I agree.
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jody wrote:
What benefits do guys get in a culture that systemically oppresses women?

...you're kidding, yes?


Might wan't to pick up "Self Made Man" a book about a lesbian who portrayed herself as a man for a first hand study, expecting to experience the "benefits" of the patriarchy. Good read.

I will admit she basically visits and goes to the "fringe" people, but they are the same people that most here have the biggest issues with.
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Last edited by Rothide on Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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Gibson22



Joined: 01 Jul 2012
Posts: 301

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theia wrote:
Well it's more curiosity about specific benefits that men are getting than it is a denial that culture is systemically oppressing women.

EDIT: was I conveying some aggressive tone in my previous comment? The incredulous, are-you-serious tone of your response wasn't very nice Sad


I wouldn't be too offended. It is a knee-jerk reaction in some cases. In most cases the posters can't be sure if it is someone legitamately curious or if it is someone looking to attack. Although I wouldn't consider myself a feminist in the slightest degree, Monkey did mention that women are under-represented in politics and in higher CEO positions. While I disagree that this is a concerted effort to keep women out of power, (not that this isn't true; because it is. It's very rare to find a woman in a high position of power) I could see why this would be a plausible conclusion for someone to make.

Or she could have been going for humorous sarcasm rather than attack. Sarcasm is so very hard to tell apart through text.
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Valerie



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theia wrote:
Jody wrote:
Not for nothing, guys that insist "not all men do it" is a suitable counter to systemic oppression are part of the problem. They refuse to accept or acknowledge the fact that they have benefited from the situation, thereby giving approval by default.


What benefits are they getting?


For one, boys and girls have very different toys. Girls' toys teach them to be nurturing, to clean, to take care of babies, etc. Servant duties. Boys' toys teach them to think and create and build. Leader duties.

It starts even earlier than that, and it continues.

Men, compared to women, don't deal with nearly so much street harassment. Few people are shouting across the street to a man about how his body looks or about his assumed sexual availability.

Men can sleep with lots of women, but women can't sleep with lots of men. Men who sleep around are players. They get high-fives each time they "score." Women who sleep around are sluts/skanks/whores/etc. They're shamed.

Men still get paid more than women.

No one cares if men buy condoms, but a lot of people get pissy about women and birth control.

Women are still made fun of in every facet of society for every reason. So-and-so throws like a GIRL. I can't believe Billy lost to a GIRL. You're acting so emotional, like a GIRL. Also note that "girl" is frequently used in place of "woman" in cases where "boy" would not be used in place of "man."

So that's a few. Don't get me wrong, men have their problems, too, but at the end of the day...
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Jody



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry if you didn't mean it that way, Theia. It sounded like you were denying.

Here are a few, for example:

Men hold more power.
Men get paid more.
Women get raped more often.
Women are expected to pay for their own medical issues even when insured because some people object to them.

There are plenty. Many are such that a guy wouldn't even notice it was happening. Which is why when he denies they happen at all, he's giving his approval for them to continue.
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joandark



Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Posts: 267
Location: New Austria

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This comic sums up everything I've been adverse to in the otherwise wholesome message of new Sinfest.

1. It assumes that only men support the patriarchy. That's like assuming that only rich people vote republican. Just because one group gets the longer end of the stick in a system doesn't mean that the oppressed can't be just as adverse to change, even if it's heavily in their favor. Hence the women, however few, who voted for the Mormon guy last election.

2. It presents hate as if it's the solution. I'm not going to say that hate isn't justified. It is. But it's still hate. And hate doesn't get anyone anywhere, especially not when we're talking about a civil rights issue. Is it fucking cliché to use a MLK jr quote to make a point?

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

Or should I use a MLP saying instead?

"Love and tolerate."
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Last edited by joandark on Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Gibson22



Joined: 01 Jul 2012
Posts: 301

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

joandark wrote:
This comic sums up everything I've been adverse to in the otherwise wholesome message of new Sinfest.

1. It assumes that only men support the patriarchy. That's like assuming that only rich people vote republican. Just because one group gets the longer end of the stick in a system doesn't mean that the oppressed can't be just as adverse to change, even if it's heavily in their favor. Hence the women, however few, who voted for the Mormon guy last election.

2. It presents hate as if it's the solution. I'm not going to say that hate isn't justified. It is. But it's still hate. And hate doesn't get anyone anywhere, especially not when we're talking about a civil rights issue. Is it fucking clique to use a MLK jr quote to make a point?

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

Or should I use a MLP saying instead?

"Love and tolerate."


Last message before I go to bed, but a MLP quote is always appreciated and is twenty percent cooler. But when it comes to being straight up zen and awesome, I have always loved, remembered, and stood by this quote.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3315

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gibson22 wrote:
Rothide wrote:
Don't get me wrong I don't hate the characters, they make my eye roll but I don't hate them... their just caricatures. I don't really agree with any of the stances beyond equality for all however. But meh, what cna you do.


Caricatures is a darn good word for it.


I could say the same about the two of you, tweedle dee and tweedle dumbass.
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