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7/15 because why not
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1046

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

merest wrote:
Rune wrote:
No one is saying that outright hatred of a group is right, though you might go back and read about the function of anger when it comes to recovery of self from oppression and abuse and at least get some sympathy.


I just cast an eye over every page of this thread, and didn't see anything about the functions of anger in recovering from oppression and abuse. But I would very much like to read something on that subject, as I don't understand it very well. If you or anyone else has some links, please give them.


All of this explaining and re-explaining to the same cavalcade of half-assed interest couched comfortably in dangerous ignorance is starting to blend together. It might be in one of the other recent threads.

But here, have this anyway, as a starter: http://www.spring.org.uk/2012/03/the-upside-of-anger-6-psychological-benefits-of-getting-mad.php
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merest



Joined: 15 May 2011
Posts: 325

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
All of this explaining and re-explaining to the same cavalcade of half-assed interest couched comfortably in dangerous ignorance is starting to blend together. It might be in one of the other recent threads.

But here, have this anyway, as a starter: http://www.spring.org.uk/2012/03/the-upside-of-anger-6-psychological-benefits-of-getting-mad.php


It is good that your ability to read minds is balanced with a sense of self-righteousness; for self-righteousness without telepathy would be priggish. I feel sure that your world-weariness also prevents you from using your mental powers over-rashly.

Thanks for the link.
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Valerie



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zhuinden wrote:
So why is hating 50% of the world population based on biological sex any more "justified"?


It's not justified. It's understandable.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3263
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valerie wrote:
Zhuinden wrote:
So why is hating 50% of the world population based on biological sex any more "justified"?


It's not justified. It's understandable.


Very much this.

These conversations would be easier if anti-feminism posters here would stop operating under the assumption that all feminists are Trans Exclusionary Man Hating Radical Feminists. Because that's not where the feminists here at Sinfest are starting from. Not at all.
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 722
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suggest you* read http://www.everydaysexism.com/ and then have a long, hard think about why women might occasionally be hostile to men.

*not Stripey, the other people
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1046

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

merest wrote:
Rune wrote:
All of this explaining and re-explaining to the same cavalcade of half-assed interest couched comfortably in dangerous ignorance is starting to blend together. It might be in one of the other recent threads.

But here, have this anyway, as a starter: http://www.spring.org.uk/2012/03/the-upside-of-anger-6-psychological-benefits-of-getting-mad.php


It is good that your ability to read minds is balanced with a sense of self-righteousness; for self-righteousness without telepathy would be priggish. I feel sure that your world-weariness also prevents you from using your mental powers over-rashly.

Thanks for the link.


At least I can actually read what people write. You might want to work on that.
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Zhuinden



Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was going to write numerous replies, mostly about how I'm not anti-feminist as I do support gender equality (in fact, I wish it didn't go further than biological sex and thus sexual compatibility in terms of reproduction, and nothing else), I'm against the radical notion of it that actually does hate men (no matter who they are and what they are like, as long as they are male) - but then I realized I've been reading the comic wrong all along.
Lil'Sis is beating up a 'MISOGYNIST'. Squig is the one who asks "why do you hate men?" Thus, Squig is the one who creates the assumption that if you hate misogynists, then you hate men.

And that completely changes the context.

I was going to reply to Rune that I should have gone with the example of blacks hating whites in our current society, but with this in mind,
Lil'Sis really does actually only hate those who are hostile towards her as being part of the group.

I've proven myself wrong. Embarassed

Ennis wrote:
I suggest you* read http://www.everydaysexism.com/ and then have a long, hard think about why women might occasionally be hostile to men.

*not Stripey, the other people


Fighting sexism with sexism solves nothing. You could be precautious, but there is no validity to punishing the undeserving with hostility.

http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2012/12/reasons-people-believe-feminism-hates-men/ Point #3.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1046

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Men who view it as hostility kind of need to get over themselves. There is good reason for women to be on guard against constant sexism and entitled jerks invading their space and demanding things of them. Get mad at the jerks who create that environment with men's faces on it, not the women who have to navigate it.

Last edited by Rune on Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 722
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zhuinden wrote:
I was going to write numerous replies, mostly about how I'm not anti-feminist, I'm against the radical notion of it that actually does hate men (no matter who they are and what they are like, as long as they are male) - but then I realized I've been reading the comic wrong all along.
Lil'Sis is beating up a 'MISOGYNIST'. Squig is the one who asks "why do you hate men?" Thus, Squig is the one who creates the assumption that if you hate misogynists, then you hate men.

And that completely changes the context.

I was going to reply to Rune that I should have gone with the example of blacks hating whites in our current society, but with this in mind,
Lil'Sis really does actually only hate those who are hostile towards her as being part of the group.

I've proven myself wrong. Embarassed

Ennis wrote:
I suggest you* read http://www.everydaysexism.com/ and then have a long, hard think about why women might occasionally be hostile to men.

*not Stripey, the other people


Fighting sexism with sexism solves nothing. You could be precautious, but there is no validity to punishing the undeserving with hostility.

http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2012/12/reasons-people-believe-feminism-hates-men/ Point #3.


Quote:
Being a feminist doesn’t mean you blame every individual man you know for hundreds of years of oppressive behavior. Just like you wouldn’t point at a random White person today and blame them for slavery, you can’t blame an individual man today for a history of sexism.


Dude, did you read the link at all? It's not women being like "omg your gender didn't use to let us vote" it's women telling stories of sexism in their EVERYDAY LIVES, how this happens all the time, they're scared to walk down the street because of catcalls and harassment from uh yeah, mainly men. So yes maybe they're not going to take kindly to being cornered in an elevator at 3am by a man even if they're actually a "really nice guy", that individual man may not have done something but she has a right to not feel okay in that situation, especially if she's had past experience with harassment in that situation. Maybe you made a sandwich joke that you didn't mean to be related to sexism but she's already had five guys in the office make jokes about her making them sandwiches while being eyefucked and she tells you to shove your joke up your arse. I seriously doubt that there are many women who are actively hostile to men at all times and in all situations, which is what you seem to think you are arguing against.

If you need a sort of comparison that might relate more personally to you, this is fairly good: http://www.theferrett.com/ferrettworks/2012/08/can-i-buy-you-a-coffee/
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Jody



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh dear lord the comments in that Metrosexual article are nauseating.

But as long as we're posting links, here's a good one. Basically, it points out how the misogynist nature of our society foments an air of distrust between the genders.

http://www.shakesville.com/2009/08/terrible-bargain-we-have-regretfully.html

tl;dr: women don't trust men because of both the misogynists and the apologists who refuse to hold them accountable.
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merest



Joined: 15 May 2011
Posts: 325

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
At least I can actually read what people write. You might want to work on that.


An excellent save. Of course, being unable to read, I am not sure what you said. Something about wanting hay to be passed up to you in the clouds so that you can feed your high horse?
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1046

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

merest wrote:
Rune wrote:
At least I can actually read what people write. You might want to work on that.


An excellent save. Of course, being unable to read, I am not sure what you said. Something about wanting hay to be passed up to you in the clouds so that you can feed your high horse?


Says the guy who can't scratch his ass without it sounding pretentious.
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Valerie



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

merest wrote:
Rune wrote:
At least I can actually read what people write. You might want to work on that.


An excellent save. Of course, being unable to read, I am not sure what you said. Something about wanting hay to be passed up to you in the clouds so that you can feed your high horse?


Translation:
"I don't want to admit that I'm not reading posts properly, so I'll just be an asshole instead to try and distract them."
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merest



Joined: 15 May 2011
Posts: 325

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valerie wrote:
merest wrote:
Rune wrote:
At least I can actually read what people write. You might want to work on that.


An excellent save. Of course, being unable to read, I am not sure what you said. Something about wanting hay to be passed up to you in the clouds so that you can feed your high horse?


Translation:
"I don't want to admit that I'm not reading posts properly, so I'll just be an asshole instead to try and distract them."


There's not really anything to understand. A consistent rhetorical strategy on this forum is to make allegations that lack substance; the content that supposedly backs it up is conveniently in some other thread. It is effectively nothing more than name-calling. However, there _is_ some practical benefit to be had from responding to such things: they provide a safe way to practice responding to aggression. I don't encounter much of it in real life, nor for that matter on other forums, so (naive as it may sound) I find it instructive, and of some practical benefit.
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merest



Joined: 15 May 2011
Posts: 325

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
merest wrote:
Rune wrote:
At least I can actually read what people write. You might want to work on that.


An excellent save. Of course, being unable to read, I am not sure what you said. Something about wanting hay to be passed up to you in the clouds so that you can feed your high horse?


Says the guy who can't scratch his ass without it sounding pretentious.


Horse, I said, not ass. But scratching behind the ears of any quadruped is kind.
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