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7/15 because why not
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3145
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zhuinden wrote:
I was going to write numerous replies, mostly about how I'm not anti-feminist as I do support gender equality (in fact, I wish it didn't go further than biological sex and thus sexual compatibility in terms of reproduction, and nothing else), I'm against the radical notion of it that actually does hate men (no matter who they are and what they are like, as long as they are male) - but then I realized I've been reading the comic wrong all along.
Lil'Sis is beating up a 'MISOGYNIST'. Squig is the one who asks "why do you hate men?" Thus, Squig is the one who creates the assumption that if you hate misogynists, then you hate men.

And that completely changes the context.

I was going to reply to Rune that I should have gone with the example of blacks hating whites in our current society, but with this in mind,
Lil'Sis really does actually only hate those who are hostile towards her as being part of the group.

I've proven myself wrong. Embarassed

Ennis wrote:
I suggest you* read http://www.everydaysexism.com/ and then have a long, hard think about why women might occasionally be hostile to men.

*not Stripey, the other people


Fighting sexism with sexism solves nothing. You could be precautious, but there is no validity to punishing the undeserving with hostility.

http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2012/12/reasons-people-believe-feminism-hates-men/ Point #3.


It's awesome you recognized you were wrong and owned up to that. Brava!

One thing you have to understand is that no one asked to be part of an underclass and to be bombarded with sexism all the time. It is exhausting.

Add to this the expectation that women are never supposed to be angry. Ever. That's a lot of swallowed up feelings that ferment into bitterness and anger. The little things roll up into the big things, and it all becomes one giant ball of suck.

So then when that one more thing happens, you think, "Oh. This again."
Another one more thing happens and you think, "Oh god, this again."
You have a bad day, and another one more thing happens, and you think, "Why can't it just let up for one day?"
You try to watch a film which unexpectedly throws five one more things at you, and you just stop moving because why bother? "It's never going to end."

Then your dear old auntie or your dad calls you up and says something completely sexist, and you remember, "Oh right, my family is soaking in the one more things."
And you read the news to find your politicians making decisions that personally harm you, and you think, "Well god damn, they're trying to kill me - and these other people don't care because they agree with the one more things."

And you can go somewhere quiet and try to read a non-problematic book or eat a non-problematic snack underneath a non-problematic tree. But you're not getting away from the one more things. Even when you enjoy yourself, you're going to think, "Wow, it's so nice to escape that one more thing once in awhile."
But since you remember the one more things, you have to keep thinking about them - and rather than just feeling anger, you feel sadness, because even when you get to have a good time, the one more things are waiting for you when you finish - like a horribly abusive job waiting for you at the end of tthe weekend.

And then some jackass or two comes up to you later and says, "You're interpreting the one more things wrong, and you're just choosing to be unhappy about them." What do you think then?

You think, "Where did I put the key to the liquor cabinet?"
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1043

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

merest wrote:
Valerie wrote:
merest wrote:
Rune wrote:
At least I can actually read what people write. You might want to work on that.


An excellent save. Of course, being unable to read, I am not sure what you said. Something about wanting hay to be passed up to you in the clouds so that you can feed your high horse?


Translation:
"I don't want to admit that I'm not reading posts properly, so I'll just be an asshole instead to try and distract them."


There's not really anything to understand. A consistent rhetorical strategy on this forum is to make allegations that lack substance; the content that supposedly backs it up is conveniently in some other thread. It is effectively nothing more than name-calling. However, there _is_ some practical benefit to be had from responding to such things: they provide a safe way to practice responding to aggression. I don't encounter much of it in real life, nor for that matter on other forums, so (naive as it may sound) I find it instructive, and of some practical benefit.


Translation: I don't want to look or be bothered to put more than one isolated piece of any one person's stance together at once, so Ima pretend it just doesn't exist, and then project my own strategy onto others so I can keep feeling superior. Oh, but better tack on some false humility couched as a back-handed compliment which still paints me as some kind of condescending user, because otherwise people might forget that I'm my own kind of smug idiot.
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merest



Joined: 15 May 2011
Posts: 325

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:

Translation: I don't want to look or be bothered to put more than one isolated piece of any one person's stance together at once, so Ima pretend it just doesn't exist, and then project my own strategy onto others so I can keep feeling superior. Oh, but better tack on some false humility couched as a back-handed compliment which still paints me as some kind of condescending user, because otherwise people might forget that I'm my own kind of smug idiot.


Translation: Wordy ventriloquism of some sort.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1043

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aww, come on, you're not even trying now. You're not even using ten-dollar vocabulary and philosopher name-drops to mask the fact that you don't actually have anything to say. Why the break in form? Is it too hard to do when you have to at least pretend like you're directly responding to someone?
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merest



Joined: 15 May 2011
Posts: 325

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
Aww, come on, you're not even trying now. You're not even using ten-dollar vocabulary and philosopher name-drops to mask the fact that you don't actually have anything to say. Why the break in form? Is it too hard to do when you have to at least pretend like you're directly responding to someone?


I am impressed by the consistency with which your own remarks are couched in the vocabulary and phrases of 1950s blue-collar Detroit. My knowledge of that era is patchy, but now I must concede the richness of its ass-scratching metaphors, the originality with which it disdains philosophers, and the charm of phrases like 'ten-dollar vocabulary'.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10607
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that's our Rune. A regular 1950's slodge, a fuzzy duck who's cruisin' for a bruisin' trying to get you to agitate the gravel.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6024
Location: California

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i know philosophers. i work with philosophers. philosophers are friends of mine.

merest, you're no philosopher.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9458

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know really why merest keeps up the protestations of higher intellectualism, or what the fuck ever?

Why the fuck would someone want to act like a stuck-up wannabe erudite douchebag? Why would this be a goal? Is he trolling, or is the pretentious language some sort of a personal compensation he doesn't understand?
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merest



Joined: 15 May 2011
Posts: 325

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
Does anyone know really why merest keeps up the protestations of higher intellectualism, or what the fuck ever?

Why the fuck would someone want to act like a stuck-up wannabe erudite douchebag? Why would this be a goal? Is he trolling, or is the pretentious language some sort of a personal compensation he doesn't understand?


I am neither an intellectual nor a philosopher. Were either label applied to me, I would certainly deny it.

As for what I'm doing: in this thread, I have merely practised responding to belligerence in an unruffled manner. I am not aiming for skill in actual insult; I leave that to its masters. I suspect that without swearing, and using grotesque imagery, one can't get the rhythm right, and it comes across as a pale imitation.

I am beginning to feel more comfortable with this sort of thing, which is a pleasant surprise. Thank you to all concerned.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1043

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But being a pale imitation is your entire MO. Why the sudden objection when it comes to dropping the stuffy smoking-jacket act?

Because it's your shield, keeping you from actually having to be a genuine self who is genuinely engaged, and that scares the crap out of you. Your real thoughts, feelings, and reactions to things would be exposed, you'd actually have to put some thought into them, and you're terrified that they won't stand up to even your own scrutiny. You'd be forced to actually do some mental work instead of glide by on glib non-sequiters and the substance-less crayon-caricature of affected intellect. You'd have to actually read and parse the words of others that right now just rattle between your eyeballs and your brain while you think of the next thing to say to keep your demons of insecurity at bay. You'd have to admit that you don't know what we're talking about, not because we're idiots, but because you're ignorant and do not care to change that fact. And admitting your own ignorance is somehow so antithetical to your own constructed image of yourself, that it scares you to even contemplate it, let alone act to remedy it, because that admission would send your clay walls crumbling down.

So, instead, you scurry onto the court like someone's unwanted, tag-along kid brother, grab whatever ball of thought randomly bounces your way, and sometimes will even pick some up from the sidelines that aren't even in play, and then prance around yelling for attention like you're somehow part of the game instead of a clownish impediment, so clueless that you're so out of your league. Terribly precious and embarrassing.

Oh, and look, no swears or potty-mouth in any of that, as they are actually relatively rare from me. I'm sure the viewers at home will appreciate that bit of further evidence of merest's inability to engage with what others say without bluntly caricaturing it, even if merest himself, well . . . will just do what he does.

Cheers.
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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 1053
Location: Chamber of the House of Lords in the Palace of Westminister

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a person who maintains a constant stuffy smoking-jacket act, I feel moderately slighted by these remarks.

I'm going to go sit in my study and puff angrily on my pipe and read angsty existentialist works and drink very expensive scotch now.

(the sad reality: I don't even have a pipe, much less a cabinet of expensive scotch, and I lost my copy of Also Sprach Zarathustra so I'm really just reading A Game of Thrones)
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1043

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Istancow wrote:
As a person who maintains a constant stuffy smoking-jacket act, I feel moderately slighted by these remarks.

I'm going to go sit in my study and puff angrily on my pipe and read angsty existentialist works and drink very expensive scotch now.

(the sad reality: I don't even have a pipe, much less a cabinet of expensive scotch)


Well, you do it adorably and with a sense of irony, so you get a pass. And a cookie. And a scritch behind the ears.
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merest



Joined: 15 May 2011
Posts: 325

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
But being a pale imitation is your entire MO. Why the sudden objection when it comes to dropping the stuffy smoking-jacket act?

Because it's your shield, keeping you from actually having to be a genuine self who is genuinely engaged, and that scares the crap out of you. Your real thoughts, feelings, and reactions to things would be exposed, you'd actually have to put some thought into them, and you're terrified that they won't stand up to even your own scrutiny. You'd be forced to actually do some mental work instead of glide by on glib non-sequiters and the substance-less crayon-caricature of affected intellect. You'd have to actually read and parse the words of others that right now just rattle between your eyeballs and your brain while you think of the next thing to say to keep your demons of insecurity at bay. You'd have to admit that you don't know what we're talking about, not because we're idiots, but because you're ignorant and do not care to change that fact. And admitting your own ignorance is somehow so antithetical to your own constructed image of yourself, that it scares you to even contemplate it, let alone act to remedy it, because that admission would send your clay walls crumbling down.

So, instead, you scurry onto the court like someone's unwanted, tag-along kid brother, grab whatever ball of thought randomly bounces your way, and sometimes will even pick some up from the sidelines that aren't even in play, and then prance around yelling for attention like you're somehow part of the game instead of a clownish impediment, so clueless that you're so out of your league. Terribly precious and embarrassing.

Oh, and look, no swears or potty-mouth in any of that, as they are actually relatively rare from me. I'm sure the viewers at home will appreciate that bit of further evidence of merest's inability to engage with what others say without bluntly caricaturing it, even if merest himself, well . . . will just do what he does.

Cheers.


Goodness gracious. Well, I appreciate the energy you put into articulating these thoughts, and accept that these are your genuine intuitions.

I believe I understand what you and others on this comics forum say quite well, and acknowledge when something substantial is said. You insist that I do not, but I am uncertain where you first got that idea. I am not a solipsist. Frequently saying that I am does not make it so.

You are right that I find the idea of displaying a genuine self rather vulnerable-making. Who doesn't? Is it not a daunting prospect? I work on it. The degree to which I have not achieved it is a vice; but where I have and have not achieved it is strictly a matter for personal judgement and the suggestions of close friends.

Regarding your last point: you appear to compare this forum to a court. If so, it isn't owned by anyone except Mr. Ishida. That a closely-knit tribe of curmudgeons reinforce each other's idiosyncrasies does not make it a society to whose rules newcomers must subscribe - only a team who hog the ball. But I have no wish for it to be otherwise. I have never exchanged words with such types before, so it is an interesting experiment, and I feel better equipped should I encounter them elsewhere.
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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 1053
Location: Chamber of the House of Lords in the Palace of Westminister

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps a better comparison would be a dinner party?

Say I invite various relations, friends, and acquaintances of mine to my house, we all sit down to a large meal, and we converse politely about various subjects. There is a certain etiquette that one must have at the table, and a guest who disregards the unwritten, unspoken rules of etiquette, will be unappreciated by the other guests.

Of course, the etiquette of an online forum is not at all the same as that of a dinner party and nobody really cares what anyone else says enough to do anything but be a little snarky, but I hope it's a helpful analogy.

*eats cookie and wishes he could throw posh dinner parties*
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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, on another thread, I just posted "Suum cuique" in response to Blackbooks' post on something not dissimilar to what I just said, so this last response of mine seems a bit hypocritical now...

I didn't want it to seem like I was telling you how to behave, I just wanted to give a bit of advice on how not to irritate other users- which I'm sure is unpleasant for anyone.

So my sincere apology if it seems like I'm telling you what to do.
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