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7/15 because why not
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joandark



Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Posts: 267
Location: New Austria

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gibson22 wrote:
joandark wrote:
This comic sums up everything I've been adverse to in the otherwise wholesome message of new Sinfest.

1. It assumes that only men support the patriarchy. That's like assuming that only rich people vote republican. Just because one group gets the longer end of the stick in a system doesn't mean that the oppressed can't be just as adverse to change, even if it's heavily in their favor. Hence the women, however few, who voted for the Mormon guy last election.

2. It presents hate as if it's the solution. I'm not going to say that hate isn't justified. It is. But it's still hate. And hate doesn't get anyone anywhere, especially not when we're talking about a civil rights issue. Is it fucking clique to use a MLK jr quote to make a point?

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

Or should I use a MLP saying instead?

"Love and tolerate."


Last message before I go to bed, but a MLP quote is always appreciated and is twenty percent cooler. But when it comes to being straight up zen and awesome, I have always loved, remembered, and stood by this quote.


This is much appreciated.
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Gibson22



Joined: 01 Jul 2012
Posts: 301

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Gibson22 wrote:
Rothide wrote:
Don't get me wrong I don't hate the characters, they make my eye roll but I don't hate them... their just caricatures. I don't really agree with any of the stances beyond equality for all however. But meh, what cna you do.


Caricatures is a darn good word for it.


I could say the same about the two of you, tweedle dee and tweedle dumbass.


Ha! That was actually pretty clever and funny. Kind of strikes me as what these guys would say if they could do PG-13 stuff. And I do appreciate you keeping it PG-13 on me this time around.
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pun



Joined: 30 Mar 2013
Posts: 35
Location: United States

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

its funny how opponents of feminism often try to stump a feminist by asking why she hates men, even though she clearly has only demonstrated hatred towards misogynistic principles. if a man assumes misogyny is inherent to men, thats his problem.
also, id like to think the real question is: why should he care if she hates men? knowing someone in the universe has angry feelings about you isnt nearly as psychologically impairing as institutionalized oppression.
/shrugs shoulders to demonstrate an appropriate level of self doubt/
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3271

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're welcome!


And you want to know why i just swear now rather than even make the attempts to debate I used to?

There's this whole group of people....its like I'm discussing with people who have Anterograde amnesia. Any progress toward grasping of the concepts many people with far more patience than I took the time to lay out is wiped clean with a new thread. Start from square 1! Exhausting!

It's easier to swear, and more effective as it tends to get you twits out of the thread a little sooner.
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Gibson22 wrote:
Rothide wrote:
Don't get me wrong I don't hate the characters, they make my eye roll but I don't hate them... their just caricatures. I don't really agree with any of the stances beyond equality for all however. But meh, what cna you do.


Caricatures is a darn good word for it.


I could say the same about the two of you, tweedle dee and tweedle dumbass.




I could also say your old white male guilt flagellant.
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Gibson22



Joined: 01 Jul 2012
Posts: 301

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
You're welcome!


And you want to know why i just swear now rather than even make the attempts to debate I used to?

There's this whole group of people....its like I'm discussing with people who have Anterograde amnesia. Any progress toward grasping of the concepts many people with far more patience than I took the time to lay out is wiped clean with a new thread. Start from square 1! Exhausting!

It's easier to swear, and more effective as it tends to get you twits out of the thread a little sooner.


Dang it Monkey...I gotta sleep. You did mention that before, and I can also imagine that your experience probably points otherwise...but if you are familiar with Aesop at all, you will get the point behind the Northwind and the Sun. Now for real. I gotta sleep. More tomorrow, or in a week, whenever I have time to get on.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3129
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's right, Rothide. Everyone is an extremst asshat with no rhyme or reason to their actions, and they all hate you - with no provocation, even. good job, you win a prize.
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Jody



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gibson22 wrote:
Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
You're welcome!


And you want to know why i just swear now rather than even make the attempts to debate I used to?

There's this whole group of people....its like I'm discussing with people who have Anterograde amnesia. Any progress toward grasping of the concepts many people with far more patience than I took the time to lay out is wiped clean with a new thread. Start from square 1! Exhausting!

It's easier to swear, and more effective as it tends to get you twits out of the thread a little sooner.


Dang it Monkey...I gotta sleep. You did mention that before, and I can also imagine that your experience probably points otherwise...but if you are familiar with Aesop at all, you will get the point behind the Northwind and the Sun. Now for real. I gotta sleep. More tomorrow, or in a week, whenever I have time to get on.


Hey Gibson,

The beliefs I've seen you espouse are by no means gentle. They are downright hostile.

So really, just own them. You're not fooling anyone except maybe Rothide, who has proven a willing dupe.

Just sayin'.
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
That's right, Rothide. Everyone is an extremst asshat with no rhyme or reason to their actions, and they all hate you - with no provocation, even. good job, you win a prize.


I didn't think anyone hated me.

But if you do, I guess it's OK, I'll be the physical representation of the patriarchy, then at least you have SOMETHING you can actually focus on rather than a vague all encompassing conspiracy.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3129
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who said I do? Do you not remember any of the conversations I've participated in with you?

You also missed the part were i said you think everyone aes you, not that they actually do. Because this appears to be what you think - and it appears to be what you think because f how you complain about things no one s actually supporting, and your use of phrases lije 'white guilt.'

You talk like everyone here is an extremist radfem who hates you because you are a white heterosexual cisgender man - and you behaved that way before anyone had a chance to really interact with you.
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RockstarRaccoon



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 13
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, I like to think of everyone and everything in Sinfest as parodies. The feminist here could be a parody of a second-wave feminist who "hates men", or at least how people view feminists in general. Squiggly is obviously an idiot, so why can't he just be too dumb to come up with the reply "because men aren't your oppressor", perhaps he's what the second-wave feminist is viewing the world as?

Keep in mind that Tatsuya is male (I think), so one can assume he doesn't believe all men are stupid misogynists, as that would make him one too...
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Thenadathor



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hate. it's an interesting concept politically. intersectionality dictates that a person can both be an oppressor and an oppressed person. Oppressing more or being oppressed less doesnt negate that. So assuming her question was rhetorical, her position would logically lead to a state where everyone hates each other. So unless she is willing to state that feminism is the only axis where oppression matters, her position contributes to a situation where everybody has justified hate. I wonder how great a society is at solving an entrenched political imbalance that permeates life on a personal level as well as societally while everyone is hating each other.
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Theia



Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 90
Location: California

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valerie wrote:
Theia wrote:
Jody wrote:
Not for nothing, guys that insist "not all men do it" is a suitable counter to systemic oppression are part of the problem. They refuse to accept or acknowledge the fact that they have benefited from the situation, thereby giving approval by default.


What benefits are they getting?


For one, boys and girls have very different toys. Girls' toys teach them to be nurturing, to clean, to take care of babies, etc. Servant duties. Boys' toys teach them to think and create and build. Leader duties.

It starts even earlier than that, and it continues.

Men, compared to women, don't deal with nearly so much street harassment. Few people are shouting across the street to a man about how his body looks or about his assumed sexual availability.

Men can sleep with lots of women, but women can't sleep with lots of men. Men who sleep around are players. They get high-fives each time they "score." Women who sleep around are sluts/skanks/whores/etc. They're shamed.

Men still get paid more than women.

No one cares if men buy condoms, but a lot of people get pissy about women and birth control.

Women are still made fun of in every facet of society for every reason. So-and-so throws like a GIRL. I can't believe Billy lost to a GIRL. You're acting so emotional, like a GIRL. Also note that "girl" is frequently used in place of "woman" in cases where "boy" would not be used in place of "man."

So that's a few. Don't get me wrong, men have their problems, too, but at the end of the day...


Jody wrote:
Sorry if you didn't mean it that way, Theia. It sounded like you were denying.

Here are a few, for example:

Men hold more power.
Men get paid more.
Women get raped more often.
Women are expected to pay for their own medical issues even when insured because some people object to them.

There are plenty. Many are such that a guy wouldn't even notice it was happening. Which is why when he denies they happen at all, he's giving his approval for them to continue.


Thanks for the replies. I didn't know about some of these. In partial defense of myself though it's kind of expected that I don't know about medical bills / birth control etc as a high schooler. But this is definitely informative. It also cleared a different issue I had with Jody's first statement (it was just a misinterpretation on my part) so yay.
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Theia



Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 90
Location: California

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this used to be an accidental copy of my above post.

I shall instead offer additional content relevant to my post/questions:


(http://xkcd.com/1053/)
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3129
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe, but we'll never know. I can't parse all that, since I'm apparently so vapid I hate all men. Which apparently means I hate myself, my partner, and a great many of my friends. That is clearly very stupid, whch must mean I am a stupid person - but Rothide thinks it's true, therefore that mst be the way things are, right?

I mean, everyone can plainly see how everything I've ever said displays a black and white bombastic personality of a lifeless fuck who never has any fun and can't think straight.

I suppose I should come clean that I've built a creeper shrine to the Sisterhood. I pray to them every morning and evening, and currently I am working on a holy book based on their dialogues. I have foresworn all forms of transportation besides the motor tricycle, and I have modified a pair of google glasses into some real life patriarchy blockers.

My true name is Penis Remover.
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