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2013-07-18: The White Matrix
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merest



Joined: 15 May 2011
Posts: 325

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
merest wrote:
Rune wrote:
merest wrote:
Rune wrote:
Only in your own personal fantasy universe where your phrasing and framing aren't pompously bizarre and hollowly condescending.


I believe I said "Are you saying that a thought experiment and a hypothesis are perfectly identical? Your position seems unclear."

If you consider that "pompously bizarre and hollowly condescending", your standards are strange to me. How would you have phrased it, in your normal universe?


No, you did not. If you had said those words, it would not have been as bad.

What you said was wondering out-loud if ShadowCell was confusing the two, and then when he indicated that it was not him that was confused, you demanded that he provide a definition of each rather than looking the terms up your own damn self in order to support your own stance.

You essentially said, "I think you're wrong, prove that you're not."

That's a fallacy in argument, condescending, pretentious, and just plain lazy.


But I did say those words.

The entirety of my posts were: 1) "I wonder whether you are confusing a hypothesis with a thought experiment." 2) "Please enlighten us. Define a thought experiment, and then a hypothesis." 3) "I had asked you to give your own understanding, Rune [sic], not to give links to google results. Are you saying that a thought experiment and a hypothesis are perfectly identical? Your position seems unclear. If you consider that 'pompously bizarre and hollowly condescending', your standards are strange to me. How would you have phrased it, in your normal universe?"

It is unfortunate that I had to go to the trouble of quoting myself, rather than you being honest enough to do so. Do you stand by your interesting opinion that these three statements sound pompous to you?

For the record, I think blackface a bad thing. I only stopped by to inquire into someone's interesting use of two terms. The parrotfish was an unexpected bonus.


Keep digging. It's just funny at this point. Yes, those statements sound pompous. And no, you did not say the words, "Are you saying that a thought experiment and a hypothesis are perfectly identical? Your position seems unclear." If you had, you would have said the words, "Are you saying that a thought experiment and a hypothesis are perfectly identical? Your position seems unclear," and not the other words that you did say. I didn't think I needed to re-quote everything you did say in order to emphasize the absence of those words, but thanks anyway for doing it for me.

Does what goes on in your head ever actually match the reality on the page?


I did indeed say "Are you saying that a thought experiment and a hypothesis are perfectly identical? Your position seems unclear." It was a copied and pasted quotation. If you mean that because I said more than that, I did not say that at all, you are engaging in sophistry of a rather pointless kind.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10800
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The important thing, of course, is that ShadowCell never confused a thought experiment and a hypothesis.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1054

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean that you didn't say it to ShadowCell, who was who you were calling into question, and if you HAD phrased it that way instead of the pretentious and contemptuous way that you did, we wouldn't be having this delightful little conversation, and you wouldn't have mis-replied with assumptive irrelevance when I stepped in.
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 822
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to be invited to Istancow's dinner ^_^

In return I will invite him to a tea party with a wide selection of teas and delicious cake.
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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 1103
Location: Hel

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course Ennis! I would never forget to invite you!
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 822
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woohoo! Very Happy

I don't know why but I always imagine you in an oak-panelled living room with a roaring fire and sitting in one of those high-backed plush Victorian chairs dressed, well, basically like your avatar.
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Flashbullzeye



Joined: 23 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cactuar: Thanks for your answer. I honestly don't know much about cosplay culture. The question came out that way because that was the topic that presented itself. My own feeling is that anyone should cosplay whoever the hell they feel like. I mean, I've seen a zillion female Links and the one you linked to made a killer Sailor Venus and Disney Princess. She nailed em both. And I also try to understand the attitudes against PoC (as best I can as someone who hasn't lived through it). And I make efforts to understand as best and fully as I can, hence the questions.

I'm sorry if my questions affected anyone negatively outside of confusion and frustration. It wasn't my intent.

Istancow: Can the newbie come to dinner, too? I make a mean salsa.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3429
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
While I'll never argue that Stripey isn't awesome because clearly he is, I am a little miffed to have it implied I attacked you. Pretty sure you just didn't like my answer.

Which I stand by, the whole thing is a moot point and you've made it abundantly clear that it's more important to push people into responding how you want them to than it is to actually listen to a person of color. Cactuar keeps saying things and you keep talking to the white people instead.


That drives me nuts. You have a lot pf valuable stuff to say, as does Shadowcell and others - but butts just ignore it all in favor of someone who appears nicer. Meanwhile, Rune is clocking overtime with brilliant post after brilliant post, only to be saddled with pretentious attempts at rules lawyering.

I am also a white person. Nearly all Welsh ancestry as far as I know - whch means fuck all in the USA. I may have some nebulous Mohican ancestry, but my parents had that creepy fetishization of cultures thing oing on, so it may mean about as much as someone saying they have an 'indian princess' in the family. My thoughts stem from actually interacting with the world and realizing just how disgusting a lot of behavior my family engaged in was.
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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 1103
Location: Hel

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone is invited!

Except guest. I thought it would be funny and ironic not to have guest as a guest.

And last time I invited guest he spilled wine all over my best shirt, and on my fake Persian rug from China. It was a nice fake Persian rug from China too.

And he uses tin croquet hoops instead of wood. Tasteless fellow, really.
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Dennis J. Squidbunny



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3750
Location: AUSTRALIA YOU FAKIR

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flashbullzeye wrote:
PoC .


Um
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cleocatra



Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 177
Location: Cave

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dennis J. Squidbunny wrote:
Flashbullzeye wrote:
PoC .


Um

Yeah People of Colour is the term used mostly in the US because it tends to be the best way to refer to non-white people.

It's not actually a racist term like "coloured people" can be. A lot of people prefer it to black, asian, indian etc. because it is a lot more encompassing because of the whole white is right notion that has been spread around the world.

Like how a lot of darker skinned people are encouraged to lighten their skin. My mum had a photoshoot recently and the pics that came from it were super weird because she'd been artificially lightened so much that she looked like a tanned white person.

like yeah compare this Beyonce http://media.beyonce.com/files/images/gq1.jpg with http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BlqcV80QC2o/UB0SFAmaomI/AAAAAAAAAnM/9CUgjja__D8/s1600/beyonce-real-hair-on-today-show.jpg
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enchantedsleeper



Joined: 16 Jun 2013
Posts: 202
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of race-related terminology...

What's the opinion of everyone here on the terms "biracial" and "mixed race"?

It came up in a discussion with a black friend of mine on Facebook and she expressed her distaste for both terms. I do think "biracial" sounds a bit awkward (it makes me think of "bisexual", and it also assumes that the person in question's heritage is limited to only two different races, which is pretty presumptuous). However I had always thought that "mixed race" was quite a neutral term, but clearly not to everyone, so as I read through this thread I thought it might be relevant to put the question to you guys.

If like my friend you don't like either term, is there another term you think would be more appropriate to use to describe someone of multi-racial background? If any?
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vector010



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear [insert deity], what did I start?!

On the bright side, I finally figured out why it gets under my skin... It's because it should never have been a problem. It's a problem because of all the underlying years of racism surrounding the issue, and so it feels like it's wrong because it is. It shouldn't be a problem, but is because crappy people and their damn racism. Never had any plans to dress that way myself, but couldn't understand the problem with it. Now I do, there wouldn't be a problem with it if there wasn't such a crap history of all the racism blah.


Gwar, people are people no matter how they look or where they're from. Why has that been so hard for mankind to grasp?
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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 1103
Location: Hel

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a term that's common in official use is multi-ethnic?

If you distinguish between definitions of race and ethnicity, you could say multi-racial?

I think mixed race is fine, either way.

I like to think of myself as a mutt.


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Last edited by Istancow on Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3429
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did your friend say what term they preferred, Enchantedsleeper?
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